Ryan:
[0:00] This week, we are going to discuss how Open Source crashed the stock market. That’s a big deal.

Michael:
[0:07] Good job, Open Source.

Ryan:
[0:08] Good job, Open Source. And a lot of big tech companies are feeling really shameful right now. We’re going to get into it later in the show. Welcome to Destination Linux, where we discuss the latest news, hot topics, gaming, mobile, and all things Open Source and Linux. And we discuss all of those things if we have time to finally get to all the different stories that we have. My name is Ryan.

Michael:
[0:31] We’re doing pretty good this week, the past couple of weeks.

Ryan:
[0:33] Yeah, we did good one week, Michael.

Michael:
[0:35] Two weeks. I think two weeks in a row.

Jill:
[0:37] Two weeks in a row.

Ryan:
[0:38] Oh, wow. Look at that.

Michael:
[0:39] We got this.

Ryan:
[0:40] Let’s go for three.

Michael:
[0:41] Let’s go for three.

Ryan:
[0:43] And with me today are the floppy diss of podcasting, Jill and Michael.

Michael:
[0:48] Are you calling us obsolete?

Jill:
[0:50] No. He’s saying we’ve got that vintage charm and we’re the only ones who can still save the day when the cloud crashes. Hoorah!

Ryan:
[1:00] Jill picked in her shirt. Do you see that? I’m unhackable. She’s like, hoorah!

Jill:
[1:05] Floppy disks.

Ryan:
[1:06] Look at that. I love it. I knew Jill would take that as a compliment. You know? Absolutely.

Michael:
[1:13] Of course. Of course she would.

Ryan:
[1:15] We’re also going to be discussing Apple being forced to open its magical gates to its garden. That’s going to be exciting there. Now, let’s get this show on the road toward Destination Linux.

Michael:
[1:35] Our feedback this week comes from Alan. They have this to say. I work in a public defender’s office, and I am, of course, the computer systems administrator. Administrator.

Ryan:
[1:45] Administrator. Is that an official position, Michael, an administrator? I think it’s pronounced administrator.

Michael:
[1:52] Oh.

Ryan:
[1:52] I want to help you out.

Michael:
[1:54] It’s a combination of administration and er, so with administrator. I’m pretty sure I’m right. Let us know by going to destinationlinux.net slash feedback or comments. That’s it. Destinationlinux.net slash feedback.

Ryan:
[2:08] Oh, good job, Michael.

Michael:
[2:10] I’m messing up all sorts of stuff. Anyway, he goes on to say, I love your show and love Linux. I am setting up OLlama and OpenWebUI for an internal AI for our attorneys to use with the intention of the AI being arguing the prosecution’s case so our attorneys can be better prepared. My first computer was back in the 1980s, and it was an Epson 8088 with an aftermarket 20 megabyte hard drive. That’s right. The insanely large 20 megabyte hard drive that sounded like a snare drum and a CGA monitor. Yeah, he says, I am a little bit on the older side. Keep up the good work.

Ryan:
[2:48] So, first of all, I love those sounds of the older machines. Like, to me, that’s just a symphony. It’s an orchestra.

Michael:
[2:56] And here there’s like that video. There’s a YouTube channel. I don’t know if it still exists, but at one point they were making like songs using computer hardware from like those days.

Jill:
[3:05] Yeah, hard drives, floppy drives. It’s awesome. It’s one of my favorites.

Ryan:
[3:08] All the mechanical sounds were amazing, you know? Those were the days out there. And the whole idea of utilizing AI for law practice and things is huge. I have family members that practice law. AI has been a massive time saver for them. Just as an example, here are some use cases that are being used with AI when it comes to law, obviously legal research, but they have specialized AI tools like Ross and LexisNexis, which provide case law. So when you think about a lot of times when they’re going through different cases, they’re trying to find other cases that set the precedent of how it should be, what should be ruled on it. Right. And so in this case, you have an AI tool.

Michael:
[3:55] Well, not the president, the precedent.

Ryan:
[3:57] That’s what I said. Didn’t I?

Michael:
[3:59] You said president.

Jill:
[4:00] It sounded like president.

Ryan:
[4:02] And you’re giving me a hard time pronouncing things. Not again, Jill. You did this last week, Jill. You were a troll last week. I was. I want to go back and look at the footage. I’m pretty sure I said precedent for sure.

Michael:
[4:14] You said president for sure. A hundred percent.

Ryan:
[4:16] Well, when the president is going through lulls. okay so the precedent set the precedent so they go back and it can look through millions of cases at a time right to find similarities versus having somebody sitting there and you know looking at case by case by case so the amount of the speed of being able to find other laws or other rulings on on certain cases is just incredible so you could see that would be a huge help also like.

Michael:
[4:47] Just going through discovery because they give you like mountains of things and all that sort of stuff like.

Ryan:
[4:52] You know any.

Michael:
[4:52] Like those kinds of things and then going through like trying to find like case law and all that stuff like there is so much potential for this also let’s hope it doesn’t hallucinate.

Ryan:
[5:02] Yes it starts talking like a pirate in the middle court it can’t obviously argue for you uh but uh well people will probably try i’m sure there there are lawyers and And then there’s really bad lawyers. And there’s some really bad lawyers that are going to use AI for their whole practice. It’s just going to be one big AI readout.

Michael:
[5:21] There’s already one that happened and it’s already blew up in their face.

Ryan:
[5:25] Okay.

Michael:
[5:25] Good job.

Ryan:
[5:27] That sounds exactly right. Contract analysis. Michael, we have to do contracts all the time. And looking at these contracts can be daunting because Michael does the best impression of the contract wording. It’s like…

Michael:
[5:42] Here too, therefore. herein, Of course.

Ryan:
[5:45] All of those special words. And it can make it difficult to understand what it’s saying. So you could dump that contract in AI and say, hey, what does this really mean? What are the implications of this? And it can spot different clauses that might pose risks.

Michael:
[5:58] Well, Michael AI says the party of the first part is invalid. I don’t know.

Ryan:
[6:04] Michael AI is great for law cases. If you want to use it for that, it is out there for free. I gave it to the world.

Michael:
[6:11] Definitely. Don’t use that.

Ryan:
[6:12] If you’re going to represent yourself using Michael AI, it will totally help you out on your legal case.

Michael:
[6:19] Asterix, we are kidding. Don’t do that.

Ryan:
[6:21] Due diligence by quickly processing vast amounts of key data, like you mentioned, and then the judicial decision support jurisdictions use AI to assist judges in predicting outcomes based on prior past cases. So, again, you can load so much information into it and it can process it so quickly that it’s really a perfect use case for a profession. I do wonder, though, will paralegals be impacted by this a lot? You know, paralegals used to do a lot of that research and work. It’s a great job. Make good money with it. So hopefully, you know, AI continues to be a asset to make things quicker. They can work on more cases more efficiently. But Michael, to your point, when you deal with the hallucination in AI, the idea of you’re just going to use AI and get rid of your paralegals would be career law firm suicide, I feel like. You got to have a human there. You may not need as many, potentially, but you definitely still need some humans there.

Michael:
[7:22] I think a lot of people are looking at this in a negative because a lot of people are not… ambitious enough and i mean that in the sense of like people who run businesses and companies look at it like oh we can replace people and like why you could instead supplement them and have them do more so instead of doing uh higher having less people on board you can actually get more customers because they can handle more workload because they have this why would you not it’s weird that people don’t look the other way and they look like well i think.

Ryan:
[7:57] Everyone’s been jaded by corporate America and the fact that every company was drooling at the fact of getting rid of employees when this first happened. I mean, before AI even got to the point it is, companies were firing people, getting rid of their staff in anticipation for what AI could do. It hadn’t even done anything yet. You know, they just were like, oh, we don’t need all this anymore. We’re going to get rid of it. Like they, because they’re so beholden to their stock holders who, you know, only care that you’re able to double the stock every year, they’re drooling at the idea of getting rid of their employees. They can’t wait. They are so excited.

Michael:
[8:36] It looks like they can kind of pretend that they did something of value. Yeah.

Ryan:
[8:40] They’re just, they’re drooling at it. They’re like, oh my God, if I could just get rid of them. I mean, they’re like family. We’re all one big family here, but I cannot wait to get rid of them. You know, like.

Michael:
[8:49] You know, it’s funny because you said the first time you ever said that on the show, I busted out laughing. And it’s actually kind of perfect because I never thought about it. They always talk about, oh, we’re a family here. And I’ve never, I never, I don’t know why it never like popped in my head. But there’s literally a phrase that says never do business with friends and family. You don’t want that. It doesn’t make any sense. Yeah.

Jill:
[9:13] Aw, but it’s okay. And in this case, we’ve become family to each other.

Ryan:
[9:18] Well, this isn’t a business, Jill. We don’t run this like a business at all. This is the sloppiest run excuse of a business that’s ever existed in humanity.

Michael:
[9:27] Which is proof that we’re like a family because it’s a mess.

Ryan:
[9:30] It’s just one big slop.

Jill:
[9:32] Aw. Well, thank you so much, Alan, for writing in and letting us know and sharing a little bit of your journey with computers. Yeah, the Epson 8088 was part of the Epson Equity series of computers, and they were wonderful. I’ve actually got an Epson Equity 2 Plus with an Intel 286 in my collection.

Michael:
[9:54] Of course you did.

Jill:
[9:55] Jim. Actually, one of my computer labs, when I was teaching, we used Epson Equities for a while. So I got to set all those up and deploy them, and they were great machines at half the price of the IBM compatibles. So that was really cool.

Ryan:
[10:12] I smell a treasure hunt because I kind of want to see this thing. Is it too big to hold up, Jill?

Jill:
[10:17] Yeah. Oh, yeah. And heavy.

Ryan:
[10:19] It’ll have to be on the cart, huh?

Jill:
[10:21] Yeah, it would.

Ryan:
[10:23] Very cool. Well, no, I really appreciate you writing in. This feedback, Alan, is awesome because it allows us to kind of talk about what’s going on in the AI world, different use cases for the AI world. If you have use cases in the AI world that you want to send to us, how you’re using it, how it’s making your life better, easier, how it’s making your life work worse. If you are in a corporation and it’s all one big family and AI is threat of doom and gloom, let us know your thoughts on that. Go to destinationlinux.net slash comments or destinationlinux.net slash forum.

Michael:
[10:57] And also, speaking of the corporation, if they’re like family, let us know if Bob’s your uncle.

Jill:
[11:03] There you go.

Ryan:
[11:05] Very nice.

Michael:
[11:07] And as Linux users, we know what’s up. I mean, security is non-negotiable, but with threats getting smarter, your security tools need to keep pace without dragging your systems down. Traditional agents, they’re slow. They’ll slow you down. They’ll leave blind spots. It’s just a mess. It’s time for a smarter approach. And that’s why Destination Linux is proud to be sponsored by Sandfly, the revolutionary agentless platform designed for Linux. SanFly doesn’t just detect and respond. It revolutionizes security with SSH key tracking, password auditing, and drift detection, covering threats from every angle, whether your systems are in the cloud, on-premises, or embedded devices. SanFly ensures they’re all secure without the headaches of agent-based solutions. Listen to what Ken Kleiner, the senior security engineer at the University of Massachusetts, has to say. He says, Samfly is the first product I’ve seen that accurately and quickly detects thousands of signs of compromise on the Linux platform. Its unique method automates tasks which would be manually impossible.

Michael:
[12:11] Automation is key with detection and Samfly completely fits this and other requirements. If your organization is using Linux, this should be part of your cybersecurity toolset. Experience security that’s not just effective, but gives you peace of mind. No agents, no downtime, just cutting edge protection. Dive into the future of Linux security at DestinationLinux.net slash Sandfly. That’s DestinationLinux.net slash S-A-N-D-F-L-Y. And see how Sandfly can transform your security strategy.

Ryan:
[12:41] Michael, did you know you can actually test this for free? Even if you’re not a business yet, you’re thinking about opening one.

Michael:
[12:48] Oh, yeah. You can only do it like for one. 20. Oh, wow.

Ryan:
[12:53] That’s all your fingers and all your toes, Michael.

Michael:
[12:57] All my fingers and all my toes can run servers.

Ryan:
[13:00] That’s 20. That’s 20 of them right there.

Michael:
[13:02] It’s a very efficient typing process, though.

Ryan:
[13:05] The interface to the software, its capabilities are truly awesome. Check out SandFly. DestinationLinux.net.

Ryan:
[13:13] SandFly really is an amazing tool. You got to check it out. Michael, this episode, you know, you give me some crap sometimes that I write episodes about AI. But you’re going to see that I was like, took your feedback and was like, no more AI. We’re not talking about AI.

Michael:
[13:28] And then something this week happened. And then I literally messaged you saying, hey, this better be on the show.

Ryan:
[13:34] Yeah, this has got to be on the show. All right. So unless you were living under a rock like Michael, because he doesn’t listen to any news at all.

Michael:
[13:42] Except for this, I did hear about this.

Ryan:
[13:44] This actually somehow popped up on his feed somewhere.

Michael:
[13:47] If it’s tech news, I’ll pay attention. If it’s regular news, then I don’t pay attention.

Ryan:
[13:51] Don’t care. Yeah. The tech stock sell-off caught a lot of people by surprise. like that yesterday the stock just completely tanked we record this on wednesdays uh for NVIDIA microsoft um huge amd they all slid like 15 in some cases like these were huge stock slides i think like the whole.

Michael:
[14:13] Like the whole number now this could be just like what i heard it might not be accurate i’ll just give a round figure but there’s people saying that the drop of the stock market was like 500 billion dollars.

Ryan:
[14:25] Yeah i mean like collective.

Jill:
[14:27] Yeah yeah i heard NVIDIA was up to 17.

Ryan:
[14:30] More yeah this is how stupid shareholders are like you can’t use them to run your business if companies could understand this like when i say stupid i mean as a as a group mentality that shareholders have they hear any little news and they have no they don’t even know the industries they’re investing in. They barely understand what they’re working on. They just heard AI. They put a bunch of money in it. And then they’re like, I don’t know what it is, but it sounds cool. And then if any news hits, they don’t take any time to like, what’s the overall impact? What’s the long-term impact? What are other things that are coming out? And they don’t know any of that. They’re stupid as a whole.

Michael:
[15:11] And if any of those people are listening to this episode, contact me because I’m starting my own company. It’s called Blockchain, Bitcoin / AI so you.

Ryan:
[15:24] Got all the buzzwords in there.

Michael:
[15:25] Yeah yeah all of them .IO yeah.

Ryan:
[15:29] Very good Michael very good I’m gonna invest in that because meme coins are all the rage right now.

Michael:
[15:35] I don’t know why but they are I don’t know like there’s literally not one that is of any value but for some reason people still are doing it.

Ryan:
[15:44] I mean, I want to be clear that buying shares in the company and investing in the company is awesome. It’s such a great idea and it helps so many companies out. The problem is companies listening to their shareholders and doing everything their shareholders want without any gatekeeping. And because as a whole, they’re stupid. And you can see it with this. They literally are acting like the world is on fire because there’s another competitor to AI. As if nobody else in the industry was ever going to create competition for the US. We were the only ones who were ever going to have AI. That’s it.

Michael:
[16:21] I have no idea where this is from. It’s from a movie or TV or something where it’s like, it’s such a great saying where it’s a person is smart, but people are stupid. It’s like a collective. As a collective we get worse and worse.

Ryan:
[16:41] Get us all together. We’re stupid. put us all in a room we’re morons you know it’s such an interesting brilliant yeah uh so you know the stock market freaked out and why are they freaking out because this chinese startup ai, tool or company known as DeepSeek gained 1.6 million downloads on its debut of its ai they said it’s not only cheaper it requires less resources to run on than the other models it also utilizes reasoning-based AI to solve problems, which means it’s on par with ChatGPT’s latest model, which of course costs hundreds of billions when you look at the whole amount of investments that have been made into AI. And so MetaChief’s AI scientist stated, it’s not that China’s AI is surpassing the US, but rather that Open Source models are surpassing proprietary ones. booyah booyah i’m kind.

Michael:
[17:39] Of that’s that’s the best part i think that this is really interesting news and i think there’s definitely some pros and cons you know to everything but this is wonderful news because it’s Open Source and uh maybe i’m a little bit bitter about it but open ai even being called open ai makes me hate them more because they didn’t change their name when they abandoned Open Source. So they confuse people by having that name and they probably do it on purpose at this point. But I am I’m kind of like, like a kid in a candy store in the enjoyment of how delicious that, that backlash for them is because it’s like, well, you know what? Open Source just kicked you in the teeth.

Ryan:
[18:26] Yeah. Yeah.

Jill:
[18:28] And leave it to Open Source AI to be more cost effective, take less energy to run and be more memory efficient. Woo hoo. Win, win.

Ryan:
[18:37] Yeah, absolutely. You know, it’s interesting because the, When I talk about the investors not doing their research, when you really look into DeepSeek, so these were all the headlines that were everywhere. It only cost $6 million to produce the whole thing. That’s shocking if that’s the case, right? But if you just dig a little deeper, you find out that that’s not really the case at all. We know for sure it’s somewhere north of $500 million of invested since the start of this company. probably billions behind the scenes that are you know not having because china does things a little different than the u.s things don’t necessarily.

Michael:
[19:21] A little different we’re.

Ryan:
[19:22] Not above board either but we pretend to be a little better and they’re you know they don’t even try to pretend i think in a lot of cases like.

Michael:
[19:29] Yeah but also like i think there’s reports saying that it’s based a lot on lLlama or because i mean so however much money that meta put into that is definitely going should be applied to how much money was required.

Jill:
[19:42] This is a great point.

Ryan:
[19:42] Michael. This is why, again, shareholders don’t understand anything is that it’s like saying when Ford was creating a car and doing the research and development to ever create the assembly line and all of that type of stuff, it cost them a billion dollars of research and development. And today Toyota can make a car for 23 grand. There’s no comparison because they’ve obviously, DeepSeek has utilized all of the work that all these companies have done. And I can tell you that with certainty, in my opinion, just to protect from lawyers, I can tell you from certainty, in my opinion, because its responses are darn near identical.

Michael:
[20:23] You should say it with a question mark. I can say it with certainty.

Ryan:
[20:29] But they are very close.

Michael:
[20:31] Right?

Ryan:
[20:31] I tested DeepSeek out in all kinds of different contexts. I mean, writing code, asking it general questions, seeing where its guardrails were at, telling jokes, doing show notes. I tested all kinds of different things. And number one, it’s super cool. I think it’s amazing. And I love that it’s Open Source. But I see… nothing that makes me go this is surpassed anything that exists that’s exist already its responses are so similar that i can tell it’s got to be trained on nearly the same identical data that the other models were trained on and you know when you ask it about things like i think one of the fears people had is hey this means the chinese chip manufacturing is caught up with the US. But the reality is you find out that they in fact utilized NVIDIA GPUs and things. And when I asked DeepSeek itself, I said, did you train on NVIDIA GPUs? It said, yes, we had some H100s and some others, which are the latest, you know, some of the latest ones. But it also mentioned that we may have utilized things like AWS cloud services and Google cloud services, which allow us to access NVIDIA hardware without actually having NVIDIA hardware, it suggested that that may be the case.

Michael:
[21:52] So I like how it said may do that. We may have done that.

Jill:
[21:55] May. Yeah.

Ryan:
[21:57] If the investors just breathe a little.

Michael:
[21:59] You may be having this. This call may be recorded. It’s always recorded.

Ryan:
[22:04] May be recorded. So if they just didn’t freak out and just put a little thought behind it, they’d be like, hey, this is really cool. And competition pushes innovation. And so, of course, I want to see more amazing AI models and things. And what do you think ChatGPT and Gemini and all these people are doing right now? They’re freaking out trying to figure out how to get one of their better models out to surpass what’s being done here because you have to. And to me, that’s always a good thing. It’s a terrible idea in my mind that ChatGPT or any other duopoly or triopoly of a company will be completely in control of AI. That scares me more than anything else because these tools are incredibly powerful. They’re the iteration of like a digital army, you know, like digital warfare technology that can be utilized from these things. And to have one single entity control all of that is never good in human society. All through history, when you’ve got a concentration of power in one area, this is bad. This would be bad.

Michael:
[23:13] Like if the internet was controlled by a single group, that would be like the same level. Yeah. Like there’s, this is, that’s a good point. I mean, I hadn’t thought about that, but I definitely had the same fear of like a couple, even a few companies dominating it in the sense of like, because of that, that stupid article we covered many episodes ago. I have no idea when we covered it, that stupid article about the dangers of Open Source AI. And here’s, here’s, we did find out that Open Source AI is dangerous to terrible people who make decisions on stock stuff. Like definitely, it is dangerous for those people. So yes.

Jill:
[23:52] Yeah, we don’t want T1.

Michael:
[23:54] When I say terrible people, I mean like terrible decision makers.

Jill:
[23:57] Oh, yeah. Yeah, we don’t want T1000 walking around. So that’s what we had.

Michael:
[24:03] Unless it’s Open Source.

Jill:
[24:05] Jill. Yes.

Ryan:
[24:06] If it’s Open Source.

Jill:
[24:07] That’s the thing. See, Open Source creates a system of checks and balances. And with Open Source, we won’t have T1000s walking around.

Michael:
[24:18] We’ll have OS1000.

Jill:
[24:20] Yes. There we go.

Ryan:
[24:22] We’ll have T1000s, but they’ll run some arbitrary version of like Arch Linux that requires tons of compiling and things to make it do anything. And so it won’t be that dangerous after all.

Michael:
[24:34] We’ll have to ask them. We’ll see what happens when you RMRF and OS1000.

Ryan:
[24:40] And then you just shut it down and it kills itself.

Jill:
[24:42] We can hopefully wish that they’re all running Linux from scratch. That would help.

Ryan:
[24:47] There you go.

Michael:
[24:49] That would make sure no one uses it.

Jill:
[24:50] Yeah. So what was interesting when I was reading and doing research, I noticed an interesting tweet or an X post.

Michael:
[25:03] No, it’s a tweet. It’s a tweet.

Jill:
[25:05] Yeah, it’s still a tweet to me. Yeah. Tweet.

Michael:
[25:09] I don’t care what the rename is. I know. Just so you know, I don’t care. If those in the audience like that X, you don’t exist. No one likes X.

Jill:
[25:17] Yeah, no one likes X.

Michael:
[25:19] I don’t have to worry about offending you because no one likes it.

Ryan:
[25:22] Oh, no. Michael, there’s somebody in there who’s sitting in their underwear eating Cheetos going, I like X. And their Cheetos went everywhere. They’re getting to the keyboard right now.

Michael:
[25:31] I think the only people who are going to say that, I think we will get comments, but they’re going to be in like a sarcastic way. Oh, sure. I like X or X-ing things.

Jill:
[25:41] Yeah.

Ryan:
[25:42] Because it’s like, it’s a tweeting. It’s so much better than X-ing. I mean, tweeting wasn’t it either, but it’s better than X-ing. I’m going to send you an X.

Michael:
[25:49] Tweeting at least made sense because it’s like birds send out small signals and the idea of a tweet would be like a small message. Yeah. It kind of makes sense. Michael, what message am I sending you?

Ryan:
[26:02] Tweet, tweet, tweet, tweet, tweet, tweet.

Michael:
[26:04] How dare you say that on air? That is so offensive.

Ryan:
[26:10] Sorry, Jill. Go ahead.

Jill:
[26:11] Well, anyways, back to the tweet. Tech investor Mark Andreessen actually wrote on Twitter on January 24th. DeepSeek R1 is one of the most amazing and impressive breakthroughs I’ve ever seen. And as Open Source, a profound gift to the world. I just love that. Yes.

Ryan:
[26:35] Michael, the fear with these things is, is it really Open Source? Is it really Open Source?

Michael:
[26:42] Well, I mean, the answer to this is clear. It’s 100% kinda.

Ryan:
[26:49] All right. So, you know, I think one of the big things that made people freak out too is that Berkeley, who has a research tool that performs rating on chatbot capabilities, and it ranked this immediately in the top 10 of chatbots in there. In regards to Open Source, you know, the term gets thrown out a lot. So I tried to dig in the best I could. I mean, DeepSeek’s so new, they barely had time to put up information about their stuff. So I assume more will come out on this, but from what I can tell right now, the source code associated with DeepSeek models, the DeepSeek V2 and V3 is released under the MIT license. However, they do have restrictions on other models and require customers to pay to connect through their API. However, they’re certainly more Open Source than ChatGPT.

Michael:
[27:35] Which is zero.

Ryan:
[27:35] Which used to be super Open Source. I think it’s amazing. I’m with you, Michael. I am so not a fan of chat gpt because of the fact that they took the work of the Open Source community then the moment there was billions available to be made closed it down kept that work closed it down and then you know made this and then have done i haven’t seen them do anything that’s made the news anyways Open Source since like they might release very old models but i.

Michael:
[28:07] Don’t think since since they did like a code dump when they did the transition i don’t think they’ve done anything since that I’ve seen at all. They have.

Ryan:
[28:15] It’s certainly not notable enough that it’s ever made any news that I’ve seen in there.

Michael:
[28:20] I would just like to give you a reenactment of when I heard about this and how it was hurting ChatGPT and OpenAI. That’s what Jesus said.

Ryan:
[28:30] That’s a very good reenactment. There is a difference between their model license, though, and their code license. The model license governs the use, distribution, and modification of the AI model itself, including its weights, architecture and the data used for training the code license applies the source code related to the models including any software libraries tools or scripts this part have v2 and v3 Open Source under mit the other part is under far more restrictive license uh there so the model has restrictions such as and these are terrible restrictions it makes me really upset uh prohibitions on the use of military purposes so you can’t use it for military purposes i mean oh darn fun in that there goes the t1000 you know yeah uh restrictions against generating harmful content i mean again.

Michael:
[29:18] How dare you?

Ryan:
[29:19] Yeah, how dare you. And preventing the use of the model to exploit vulnerability. So you can’t go use it to hack and stuff like that out there.

Jill:
[29:28] That’s very strict bar rails.

Michael:
[29:30] These are unacceptable and also good.

Jill:
[29:34] Yes.

Ryan:
[29:34] Now, I will say this. The problem with tools like DeepSeek is that China, being the way its government is run, is extremely restrictive on what information, even historical events, that it will allow to have any AI run against. So there are certain events in history that I’m sure, just like in any other country, that China is not proud of. And when people test those certain events to see if they can get information from the AI about them, it completely does not answer. It doesn’t allow you to have that or ask those questions.

Michael:
[30:11] It can’t help with those.

Ryan:
[30:13] It’s very censored. It’s extremely censored, in fact. And it’s on guardrails. And it’s only updated to October 2023. So it’s not current. So when you play with it, is it impressive? Totally. I think it’s amazing. I love that it has Open Source to it. I hope DeepSeek doesn’t do what ChatGPT does and close itself down now that it’s gotten all this popularity. At the same time, is there anything in this tool that’s not already been done before? No. I mean, ChatGPT has far more.

Michael:
[30:44] Open Source?

Ryan:
[30:45] I mean, well, we’ve got Llama. We’ve got lots of Open Source.

Michael:
[30:49] Llama is not anywhere near the same level. And I think that what they did was able to make an Open Source thing that is at least on par with ChatGPT. So I think that in itself is cool.

Ryan:
[31:02] In parts, because it doesn’t have voice integration. So you can’t go talk to it. If you do a ChatGPT, you can sit there and have a chat with it. And it’s going to interact like a human back with you. That’s a huge innovation leap. That took a lot of technology to do. It takes a lot of processing to do. Number two, we don’t know about its API capabilities. You got to understand that tools like ChatGPT and Grok and others are being integrated into call centers. They’re being integrated into workplaces as bots to handle people’s issues, to resolve problems real time. And that means that hallucination cannot exist, right? So these are very specialized models that are built off of ChatGPT that run through APIs for all of these corporations and things. And so from those aspects, DeepSeek has none of that. And so what it is, is a really good… large language model, uh, that was trained on what seems like very similar data to other models and it’s runs really well. But again, to freak out and act like it’s the game over China wins, blow all your money out is just.

Michael:
[32:09] I mean, the idea, like your, your rebuttal for what I said is like, is you’ve, you’ve convinced me a hundred percent, but like the idea that people were seeing this and just instantly reacting like you know the sky is falling type of stuff yeah like it’s it’s it’s kind of hilarious in a way because if you just take a moment and research which is to be fair people taking any moment to do any research these days isn’t quite rare so at least It’s tough with the internet and.

Ryan:
[32:45] The library in your hand. It’s really tough.

Michael:
[32:47] No, no, no. So you don’t understand. Having easy access to the information superhighway is, remember, it was called that at one point.

Ryan:
[32:56] Yeah.

Michael:
[32:57] Sure was. Yeah. See, that was great. But the problem is we don’t want to get in the car and actually go on that superhighway. We just want it to be like, kind of like read the sign to get on the on-ramp and be like, that’s enough.

Ryan:
[33:12] Yeah. I read the sign. It’s just like traveling on it.

Michael:
[33:15] I read the sign where it’s roughly going around there. Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan:
[33:18] Yeah.

Michael:
[33:19] That means headlines, people.

Ryan:
[33:21] It’s interesting because so I’m, you know, I’m trying to take the position of both, i love that this exists i think it’s super exciting i love that it’s Open Source also stop freaking out because it’s not that exciting it’s not like they you know pave new roads with this and i think the claims that have been made about the seven million dollars and all this ridiculous stuff need to be thoroughly investigated and have already been debunked uh yeah there’s been people talking about like.

Michael:
[33:49] The amount of information about the money has gone from like six million or under six million to six million, then to 10 million, then to 20 million to a hundred million and probably billions.

Ryan:
[33:59] It’s not the Chinese government behind the scenes.

Michael:
[34:02] Yeah. And also all the billions that were done by the other stuff that it was using for sure. So like it’s, it was a lot of money that went into it. Um, but there’s also another AI model that people are not talking about. And actually it’s, it’s nicknamed because it’s like the presidential model. And that’s because it’s called, it’s like, it’s based on Llama. You’ve heard of Ollama, right?

Ryan:
[34:24] Oh yeah.

Michael:
[34:24] Yeah. Yeah. So there’s Barack Ollama and that is.

Ryan:
[34:28] Um, Barack Ollama.

Jill:
[34:31] Is that real?

Ryan:
[34:32] That was good.

Michael:
[34:33] No, it’s not, but it should be.

Ryan:
[34:35] That is so good, Michael. That joke is stupid good.

Michael:
[34:38] Barack Ollama.

Ryan:
[34:39] Oh my gosh.

Michael:
[34:41] Thank you.

Ryan:
[34:41] Oh man.

Michael:
[34:42] I’ll be here all, well, I’ll be here next week too.

Ryan:
[34:46] I won’t be here next week though so if you hate everything I just said you don’t have to hear me next week.

Michael:
[34:52] You will have victory for one week and he’ll be back.

Ryan:
[34:55] For one week and then I’ll be back, yeah. You win the battle but I’ll win the war so that’s how this works.

Michael:
[35:00] Exactly.

Ryan:
[35:01] That’s kind of our take right now. Obviously DeepSeek’s got a lot of road ahead of it a bright future. There’s a lot of things that can come out over the next few weeks about this. One thing I want to mention is like all these AI models, the privacy policy is a big deal here. What you put into AI when you’re going and testing this, you have no rights to it all. It’s assumed that it’s big red.

Michael:
[35:25] What you put into AI is now there. It’s…

Ryan:
[35:27] It’s going to be tied to you in every form fashionable. They’re going to buy more data on you and tie that to your thoughts and everything that you’re putting in there. So just assume you’re typing a public X. So dumb. Assume you’re writing a public X that everyone can see and read with your actual full name in it. And that’s how you should use AI. And by the way, DeepSeek is no different than chat GPT and the others this way. There is no privacy expected or guaranteed, and people are reading this manually.

Michael:
[35:59] There is a slight asterisk to what you just said, and that is because you can technically, not all of it, not everything, but you can technically get the DeepSeek thing because it is Open Source, and you can run it locally if you have a powerful enough computer, which is cool because you don’t necessarily need the most powerful computer ever in order to do it. and so in those cases there have been people testing to say that the some of a lot of the restrictions are taken off not everything but like the stuff that’s illegal they do not take those off but like stuff that’s information related in terms of like historical events that stuff is those restrictions are removed so you the local versions you could do and you could argue that they’re not going anywhere because you control where it’s going if as long as the code doesn’t have some kind of you know, phone home thing or whatever. But I don’t know if it is because I’m not sure if anybody’s actually done an audit of it. But if not, and you have it locally, you could argue that you have that benefit. But if you’re using the one that’s online in the API and whatever, then just know it’s not any better. They’re all taking your data. And even if you put it in the public and not on the chat system, they’re still probably trying to take your data.

Ryan:
[37:11] Yeah, exactly. That’s the best way to look at this. And, you know, it is also all the servers are hosted in China. And so, you know, there’s obviously the governments can’t get along. Five by five sandbox, one shovel. And so you got to deal with that aspect as well that that stuff could be used by either government nefariously. And so you’ve got to keep that type of stuff in mind as well.

Michael:
[37:34] And sometimes it feels like a litter box and not a sandbox.

Ryan:
[37:38] Yeah, probably is a litter box. More like a litter box for sure.

Ryan:
[37:42] All right. Some happy news, Jill. I want some happy news. I mean, this was happy news too, but Pebble watch. Do you remember the Pebble smartwatch?

Jill:
[37:50] Oh, absolutely. In fact, I had one.

Ryan:
[37:53] I wish you did, Jill.

Jill:
[37:54] Yeah, I had one because that year I went to CES and they were showing them off.

Ryan:
[38:03] Oh, yeah, you went to CES. That’s right.

Jill:
[38:05] Yeah, so that was cool, but unfortunately, that’s one of the few tech in my collection that kind of got destroyed because it got wet in rain, and I’d forgotten I was wearing it, and then we had a thunderstorm, and it ruined it.

Michael:
[38:21] That’s a bummer.

Jill:
[38:22] Yeah, so I need to get another one off eBay or something.

Ryan:
[38:26] It was a really good-looking watch at the time it was released. Does anybody remember about the year that that came out?

Jill:
[38:34] 2012?

Ryan:
[38:35] 2012 somewhere around there that sounds about right.

Michael:
[38:38] I think it was also like the first one that was like a smart watch that actually was good yeah it had the whole package.

Jill:
[38:46] It was had really good battery life, It was kind of the first time using e-ink on a commercial level.

Ryan:
[38:54] It was 2013.

Jill:
[38:56] Yeah. Okay, 2013 was close.

Ryan:
[38:59] You were very close.

Jill:
[39:00] Yeah. And it had really good, it was functionally really great because it was smart, but not too smart. So it wasn’t like, you know, an Apple watch or a Samsung watch where there were too many bells and whistles built into it. It was just very simple. It had your watch faces. You could keep track of your footsteps. You know, it was very simple and well-designed.

Ryan:
[39:27] I would argue it looks better than some of the watches today.

Jill:
[39:30] Today. Yeah, exactly. I think so, too.

Ryan:
[39:33] It was a very good-looking watch. It had some cool features for the time. Again, keep in mind when it was released. But it had, I think it used an ARM processor, or at least one of the iterations, did Bluetooth connectivity.

Michael:
[39:45] Very fitting for a watch.

Jill:
[39:47] Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan:
[39:47] Three axis accelerometer, gesture detection.

Jill:
[39:51] Yeah.

Ryan:
[39:51] It’s a big deal.

Jill:
[39:51] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ryan:
[39:52] And then an ambient light sensor as well. So it has some pretty cool features in there. Not all the health stuff that we have today, though. It had a pedometer, I believe. And I don’t think it had heart rate detection either. It didn’t have any of that type of stuff. But, you know, think of the year that this thing came out.

Jill:
[40:09] Oh, and so many people loved it because the notifications were really well. They worked really good with the smartphones. So that was a thing.

Ryan:
[40:17] Well, you know, it’s a shock that it went away because Google bought the company and Google’s known for never getting rid of great things that it produces. It always sticks to something to the end, you know? It’s what they’re known for. No, they’re not known for that. Interesting.

Michael:
[40:34] So here’s the thing. I feel like it’s actually a little more than that because Google did buy it, but didn’t Fitbit discontinue Pebble?

Jill:
[40:46] Yeah.

Ryan:
[40:46] Fitbit bought it first. and then Google bought Fitbit. Fitbit bought it and then Google bought.

Jill:
[40:49] Yeah.

Michael:
[40:50] But Google bought Fitbit, but who actually discontinued Pebble? Was it Google or was it Fitbit?

Ryan:
[40:57] Who knows? I mean…

Michael:
[40:58] That’s the only thing I was questioning.

Ryan:
[40:59] Is this like that game? What is it? 12 Layers to…

Jill:
[41:02] 12 Layers?

Michael:
[41:03] No, it’s Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon.

Ryan:
[41:05] Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon, yeah. Who destroyed it first?

Jill:
[41:09] Well, I know Fitbit utilized a lot of the technology from Pebble West.

Michael:
[41:13] I think that’s what they did. They just took everything and put it into Fitbit. I think that’s what they did. Yeah, but Google didn’t really do anything. I don’t think Google actually did it. I think Google just inherited the discontinuation. But I also don’t. I can’t guarantee that because it’s been many years, but I have a feeling.

Ryan:
[41:29] We should use it. I have to find out, maybe.

Michael:
[41:32] We should open up DeepSeek and see what it says.

Jill:
[41:35] Yeah.

Ryan:
[41:35] So there’s good news. If you were a fan of the Pebble as well, Google did make a really good decision here to Open Source the Pebble OS.

Michael:
[41:47] That’s cool.

Ryan:
[41:47] Yeah. That means that there’s a whole community out there, by the way, that are keeping these watches alive. That’s one of the things I love about Open Source community. These companies come out, they create a really cool product. They either get bought out or they don’t innovate and they go away. But then you still have this product you spent a lot of money on and or that you became a huge fan of. And now if it has web services and other things, which the public watch did, they’re dead unless the hackers come in and fix that for you. And that’s what a few of these movements do to keep these things alive. And so there’s a whole thriving community of people out there utilizing these Pebble watches. And they were, I think it’s called RePebble.

Jill:
[42:29] Yeah. Or I call it Rebel.

Ryan:
[42:32] Yeah. Or Rebel. Yeah.

Jill:
[42:33] Yeah.

Ryan:
[42:33] Out there that allows you to still take the functionality of this watch and keep it alive for any of the web. Not all of the web services are available as I was reading through their page. it looked like they have some of the core all the core ones though that the pebble originally had working there with the rebel project so i think it’s super cool and now with this with the code being released they can actually probably turn on all of those features that they wanted uh that worked back in the day because they have the code to generate that which is super cool i’m i mean i’m not i’m not gonna go get one and be honest like i love my garmin watch but if i had a pebble i I would think this was really cool.

Michael:
[43:14] And if they make a new version that’s like, you know, I don’t know if the name Pebble can be used. It’s probably owned by Google at this point. But like if they make a new watch and there’s a modified, updated version of the OS, that could be cool. Or if like they could take it and then like all the work for like the Pine Time, for example, and all that work could be, you know, put into it because it’s Open Source and all that. I think that would be great. And I have a suggestion for the new name for that watch. Instead of pebble, we’ll call it gravel.

Ryan:
[43:47] All right. I got a better one for you.

Jill:
[43:49] What about stone? No, I’m kidding.

Ryan:
[43:51] I got a better one for you.

Michael:
[43:52] Cobblestone would work.

Jill:
[43:54] Yeah, cobblestone.

Ryan:
[43:55] Raspberry Pi Foundation comes out with a watch and they call it Fruity Pebble.

Jill:
[44:00] There we go. That’s perfect.

Ryan:
[44:02] Boom.

Jill:
[44:03] That’s good, Ryan. That’s good.

Michael:
[44:05] See, that’s great, but there’s two trademark things to deal with in that case.

Ryan:
[44:12] True, but it’s a genius name. It’s a genius name. Tell me you would not own a Fruity Pebble if…

Michael:
[44:18] I would go out and buy one right now.

Ryan:
[44:20] Yes, of course you would. It’s powered by Raspberry Pi chip.

Michael:
[44:23] It’s powered by Dad Jokes, too.

Ryan:
[44:26] Powered by Dad Jokes. That has to be an app. Raspberry Pi Foundation, we released this to you with no cost to us, that idea. As long as you send us, number one, all of us get a free Fruity Pebble. And number two, you program an app that tells Dad Jokes in the OS.

Michael:
[44:44] That would be great. And I also just realized that technically speaking, I should make a t-shirt for this because I’m powered by dad jokes.

Ryan:
[44:51] Yeah, that’s a good one. Oh, I like that shirt. That would be a good shirt.

Ryan:
[44:54] I’m powered by dad jokes. I like it. Speaking of fruit, Michael, Apple, you know that company out there?

Michael:
[45:02] Oh, they make…

Ryan:
[45:05] Bones and stuff, I think.

Michael:
[45:07] Bones, laptops, and tablets, and own ridiculous amounts of money. They have lots of money. Are you talking about the one that’s a Macintosh, or are you talking about Fuji apples?

Ryan:
[45:19] Fuji apples, of course. Those are delicious, by the way.

Michael:
[45:22] Those are delicious. Those are the best.

Ryan:
[45:24] So Apple is being forced to open its gate to the garden. The European Union is pushing Apple to make its iOS features, including AirDrop and AirPlay, more interoperable with other platforms like Android. And the document released by the EU outlines several changes they want Apple to implement to ensure effective interoperability with third-party devices, including AirDrop. Apple must provide a protocol specification for third parties to allow file sharing between the devices. And then AirPlay, they want to enable, obviously, the AirPlay receive, be able to receive these files and things like that, or be able to receive the CAS, I guess, from your phone. So you can AirPlay on different devices. And then other features proposals covering iOS notifications, working with third-party smartwatches so that other companies like Fruity Pebble can get the, have that integration with Apple as well as Android when they do that. So.

Ryan:
[46:23] Here’s my take on this. EU is actually making Apple a better company and Apple doesn’t realize it. Like when I think of USB-C as an example, EU’s forcing Apple to go to USB-C made Apple a better product. It’s a better product now because I don’t have to have stupid lightning cables plus USB-C cables plus all this waste of different wires and things. And then we know the lightning cables break off inside of iPads all the time. That’s the number one repair I do for family members, by the way, is pull out the lightning, broken piece of lightning port out of the charging of an iPad because the things always snap. They just break. It was a cool design. It allowed fast charging, but it was outdated when USB-C got to.

Michael:
[47:10] And they were very quick at the same. They were roughly around the same time.

Ryan:
[47:13] I think. Roughly. Lightning was first. I’m pretty sure it was out there. At least it was marketed better if it wasn’t.

Michael:
[47:20] But it’s also kind of funny because you’re saying that they’re making them a better company with that. I feel like they know it, but they’re like, it’s more like when you are taking a dog to the vet. They don’t like it. They’re going to fight, but it’s good for them.

Ryan:
[47:35] That’s a great analogy, man. That is a great analogy. Apple is so stubborn with this stuff, but it’s really anti-competitive. like nobody else like garmin for instance you know can’t have access to make their watch as functional as it could be because apple wants to keep that stuff closed down and of course they’re always going to say it’s for security and all the other stuff well then how do you do it on your own watch dummies so you know you’ve got to allow you’ve got to allow companies to get in there and also eat let let somebody else to the dinner table and eat apple like you don’t have to hoard all the food yourself let some other companies eat you know let us have some food we’re.

Michael:
[48:11] Not saying we want a part of the apple. We just want to be a part of the orchard.

Ryan:
[48:17] There you go.

Jill:
[48:18] Yes.

Ryan:
[48:18] Put us in the orchard.

Jill:
[48:20] Aw, Ryan, I fully agree with you, actually. And as an Android user, it would actually be so convenient to partake in the original Apple walled garden of sharing data and casting data. Especially on my.

Michael:
[48:34] Well, it wouldn’t be the Apple walled garden. It’d be the Apple garden.

Jill:
[48:37] Apple garden, yes. There we go. So, especially on my smart TVs that almost always have AirPlay built in for casting.

Michael:
[48:45] And it is annoying having to.

Jill:
[48:48] Sometimes use third-party apps to achieve this on android to cast a certain manufacturers of tv samsung.

Michael:
[48:54] Yes and also samsung you’re terrible at so many things um yeah but the the other thing is there’s um apple car play in my opinion you’re terrible yes but uh the fact that they get caught having microphones on your tv you don’t need that um but the car play stuff like i’ve used the android version and i’ve used the apple versions for the car stuff and the apple ones it’s better yeah it is so like like i don’t i don’t know why android can’t even like like it’s it’s so annoying to use the android one and the apple one is just like it’s it works smoothly and you can even do it like wirelessly hooking up and stuff like anyway so So I think Apple makes a lot of cool products. They have a lot of good stuff, but also they’re terrible. So in my opinion. So I think the EU is this, them doing this. Let me show you my reaction when I’ll reenact it. Reenact it.

Ryan:
[49:55] Here we go. Another reenactment. You got to watch the video version of this show for Michael’s reenactments.

Michael:
[50:01] Yeah, exactly. You don’t want to miss this. This is when I heard the news that EU is forcing Apple again to do something that they shouldn’t have already done years ago.

Ryan:
[50:14] Wow it’s very similar to your reaction of uh chat gpt i mean yeah yeah it’s a little it’s.

Michael:
[50:22] I had the same feeling now.

Ryan:
[50:23] I just picture you in your house all day reading headlines going yeah.

Michael:
[50:29] But not not just that but doing it to a camera.

Ryan:
[50:32] Yeah okay good good good uh when you look When you look at the market share, you know, generally you want to say, hey, companies are free to do what they want. It’s their products. They innovate, blah, blah, blah. But there are monopoly laws for a reason. And so when you look at Apple’s share, you know, they have a 28% of the global smartphone market share. Guess who owns the rest of that? Like nearly all of it is Android. So you’ve got a duopoly, right?

Jill:
[51:04] Yeah.

Ryan:
[51:04] In the United States, however.

Michael:
[51:06] Technically speaking, it’s not necessarily like Android because Google doesn’t have the most phones sold. That’s Samsung. So I think they have a little bit of an out there.

Ryan:
[51:17] But it’s utilizing Android.

Michael:
[51:19] As far as operating systems go, yes, it’s Android.

Ryan:
[51:22] It’s all Android. And Apple has a significant lead in the market share in the U.S. at 57%. So globally, 28%. But in the U.S., they darn near dominate the entire market. I mean, 57% of the entire smartphone market is huge because everyone has a smartphone. Like everyone.

Michael:
[51:42] And some of us have many.

Ryan:
[51:45] Now when you have a newborn, the hospital gives you a smartphone for the newborn. It’s just you get one right out of the womb.

Michael:
[51:51] And actually, you have to have so many decisions when you have a kid. You have to name the kid and pick which you want, iPhone or Android.

Jill:
[52:01] It’s so hard.

Michael:
[52:03] So hard.

Ryan:
[52:04] Well, yeah. I mean, the naming the kid is actually second to picking the phone.

Michael:
[52:08] Of course. Yeah.

Ryan:
[52:09] You know, do you want a kid walking around with an Android or you want a kid walking around with Apple? That is a tough decision. Their future, you know.

Michael:
[52:16] And you’re basically, you know, you’re forcing them to have this particular device until they’re at least four, you know.

Ryan:
[52:24] Eligible for the next upgrade. So they’re at least eligible for the next upgrade. Yeah. So they love their closed garden. It obviously gives them a competitive advantage. And, you know, they’re normally I would be like, hey, they’re allowed to do that. But when you cut off all competition from being able to compete with you at all and you have a monopoly or duopoly, then, you know, that’s where governments come in to break that kind of stuff up. And I think that’s kind of what’s happening here is they’re being forced to open that garden because they are so dominant. And they’re dominant because they made a lot of great decisions with hardware. Let’s be honest. Like they, they, you know, so many people to this day will sit there and argue with me that people don’t care about privacy, but you know, who cared about privacy enough to actually trumpet it? And I’m not saying they actually didn’t. you know, are the best in privacy because they’re far from it. They do better than Android in most cases, but they’re far from it. But they spent at least hundreds of millions, if not a billion dollars on ads and newspapers, billboards, TV advertising, talking about the fact that they’re more private than Android. And so if you think people don’t care about privacy, I would say, yes, they care about convenience more, but privacy is up there and Apple’s marketers knew it and they capitalized on it and if you ask anyone on the street which one’s more secure they’re going to tell you apple even if they’re not a big technology person because apple spent a ton of money getting that message out so yeah it does and it’s.

Michael:
[53:51] Also not even about like you know that there’s the argument of like some people would say the terrible take of like i have nothing to hide blah blah blah um that there’s people who are like that would still choose an apple device because they get the privacy on top of. They would still want privacy if the convenience is not lost. It’s more of the fact that if you’re saying that I have to do all this work to get privacy, then never mind. But as long as you get both sides, they’re going to always choose the lesser evil, which is having at least some privacy.

Ryan:
[54:29] Well, Jill, that’s not the only fruit in our show. We’ve got more fruit to talk about, don’t we?

Jill:
[54:33] We sure do. And speaking of apples, have you ever wondered what would happen if an apple became sentient like a T-1000 with AI?

Ryan:
[54:47] Every time I’m eating one, I’m like, what if this apple was sentient and knew I was eating it? And then am I a cannibal? It’s not the same species.

Michael:
[54:55] But it’s alive. You’re not an apple, so it’s fine.

Ryan:
[54:58] Oh, no.

Michael:
[54:59] You know.

Jill:
[54:59] Oh, yeah. An apple’s alive, just like a carrot.

Michael:
[55:02] You wouldn’t be vegan at that point. But, you know, like.

Ryan:
[55:06] Okay.

Michael:
[55:07] I’m not a cannibal.

Ryan:
[55:08] But I’m not vegan.

Michael:
[55:09] Would that count as not vegetarian or vegetarian? Like, which one would that be?

Jill:
[55:13] Which one would that be?

Michael:
[55:14] If it’s sentient and it’s not, then maybe it is, maybe it isn’t.

Ryan:
[55:20] You said earlier you’ve never thought about what if an apple became sentient. Have you really ever thought about that?

Michael:
[55:26] I can happily and gladly tell you no.

Ryan:
[55:29] That is shocking. What about bananas? Yeah?

Michael:
[55:32] Oh, naturally, because, you know, peanut butter, jelly time, peanut butter, jelly time.

Ryan:
[55:36] Okay.

Jill:
[55:37] All right, good.

Ryan:
[55:37] All right, Jill, continue.

Jill:
[55:38] Well, if apples became sentient, what would an apple want to do with its time? How would it get around? What form of locomotion would it have? Would apples get along with bananas?

Michael:
[55:54] What form of locomotion?

Jill:
[55:57] Well, you may not get all those answers to your burning questions, but you can at least play this game and experience what it’s like to be both apple and man. So our game this week is Apple Man. The game on Steam describes itself like this. Apple Man is no ordinary fruit. Due to a mysterious force beyond anyone’s comprehension, he has been blessed with two unbreakable legs. Yes, that’s the locomotion joke earlier. He’s been blessed with two unbreakable legs and a myriad of special abilities. With his newfound power, he is absolutely determined to accomplish his lifelong dream of reaching to the sky.

Michael:
[56:45] His lifelong dream of like two days.

Jill:
[56:48] So Apple Man is actually a really fun romp of a 2D physics driven platformer. And it’s only $4.99 on Steam.

Ryan:
[56:56] What a steal.

Jill:
[56:56] Don’t give it a try. What a steal. It’s really a fun game.

Michael:
[57:00] A mysterious force beyond anyone’s comprehension. So is it a man that became an apple or is an apple because it was bitten by a radioactive apple? Or is it an apple that became a man because it was bitten by a radioactive man?

Ryan:
[57:16] Then $4.99 and find out, Michael.

Jill:
[57:18] It’s an apple with fragili legs. Yeah.

Ryan:
[57:24] Fridge. Jilly. Fridge. Jill, your dad jokes need help. Like, they are.

Jill:
[57:30] Hey.

Ryan:
[57:31] They are so. That joke’s from the Christmas story.

Michael:
[57:36] Ryan, Ryan, why are you being so cold? You’re basically acting like a freezer right now.

Ryan:
[57:42] This is unbelievable. So, look, I know a lot of you out there have the same burning questions we do about apples becoming sentient.

Michael:
[57:53] Or cooling questions because you put it in the fridge.

Ryan:
[57:57] Oh my gosh. Can we shut off his mic remotely? Is that like a thing?

Michael:
[58:03] Luckily, it’s powered by a mixer, so only I have control.

Ryan:
[58:06] If I had ability to have a sentient apple, I would send it over there to turn off your mic.

Michael:
[58:11] I would be very terrified and let it.

Ryan:
[58:14] Yeah. You’d be scared of a little apple man, really?

Michael:
[58:19] His unbreakable legs. What if it tried to kick me?

Ryan:
[58:22] Yeah, that’s true.

Jill:
[58:23] It would try to kick you.

Ryan:
[58:25] But its head’s not unbreakable. It’s just legs are unbreakable Oh.

Michael:
[58:28] That’s true Okay, fair enough Alright.

Ryan:
[58:32] So As you all know, I have a lot of nicknames for Michael Most of which I can’t say on air Awesome guy.

Michael:
[58:39] The best dude ever None of the above However.

Ryan:
[58:43] This one I can say What’s that? Egghead, you’re an egghead.

Michael:
[58:49] Michael Wow, that one Ryan.

Jill:
[58:52] We’re all on this show, so we’re all technically eggheads What?

Ryan:
[58:57] It’s true.

Michael:
[58:57] So it’s funny because people would, you might think that Ryan is saying this is like, oh, because this is a joke and he never actually called me that. He has.

Ryan:
[59:09] Yes.

Jill:
[59:09] Yes.

Ryan:
[59:10] All right. So it also happens to be our software spotlight this week of Egghead. Egghead is a trivia app, Michael, that lets you learn and have fun at the same time.

Michael:
[59:19] Well, I mean, obviously I would play this and I would get everything right automatically.

Ryan:
[59:23] Yeah, because you are an Egghead. It has tons of categories like history, science, geography, sports, art, celebrities, centian apples.

Michael:
[59:31] Celebrities thing guarantees I get stuff wrong.

Ryan:
[59:34] Yeah. I don’t think I would do very well in that category either. It has the ability to download quiz, save downloaded quizzes, delete, save quizzes, switch to dark light or system mode. And to me, if the app doesn’t have that, I ain’t using it. So that’s an important part, having the dark mode in there.

Michael:
[59:49] Dark mode is important. I think we need to now, Now, this is a perfect app that we can do a live stream challenge of like who can get the most answers of this quiz.

Ryan:
[1:00:02] Can I have AI open? Because I’m not good.

Michael:
[1:00:04] You cannot.

Ryan:
[1:00:05] Yeah.

Michael:
[1:00:06] I don’t think it would help you anyway because it’s probably timed. And if it isn’t, I’ll add a timer anyway.

Jill:
[1:00:11] Ryan, you can put it on easy mode and that could help a lot.

Ryan:
[1:00:15] Yeah.

Michael:
[1:00:15] We will put it on super expert, hardcore, awesome mode.

Ryan:
[1:00:19] I mean, even things like who was the first U.S. president. Don’t ask me stuff like that. I have no clue. Bob’s your uncle? I don’t know. Who cares?

Michael:
[1:00:27] Bob’s your uncle. Yes.

Ryan:
[1:00:29] There you go.

Michael:
[1:00:31] And it’s another, that’s just, if you didn’t know, that’s what George Washington’s nickname was, Bob. And he was somebody’s uncle.

Ryan:
[1:00:41] We’re so bad with this type of data. It’s unbelievable.

Michael:
[1:00:47] All right. We’re listening right now.

Ryan:
[1:00:49] The point is that it’s far better to spend your time with an app like this, where you’re learning something rather than doom-scrolling posts on social media.

Michael:
[1:00:57] That’s true.

Ryan:
[1:00:58] Fill your brain instead of killing it with politics. That’s how I feel anyways.

Michael:
[1:01:02] I agree with that.

Jill:
[1:01:04] Mm-hmm.

Ryan:
[1:01:04] Jill, give us a tip of the week. What you got?

Jill:
[1:01:08] Oh, cool. So last week we talked about the awesome NMAP.

Michael:
[1:01:13] NMAP.

Jill:
[1:01:15] NMAP.

Ryan:
[1:01:16] No, stop. Stop.

Jill:
[1:01:19] So this week, check out a tool called Linus, and it’s not as in Linus, L-I-N-U-S, it’s L-Y-N-I-S. Linus is a powerful command line tool for auditing, system hardening, and compliance testing, and it works on systems running Linux, macOS, or a Unix-based operating system like BSD. It performs an extensive health scan of your systems to support system hardening and compliance testing.

Jill:
[1:01:53] And the Linus project is actually Open Source software with a GPL license, something we love to hear, and has been available since 2007. And there’s so many use cases for Linus. Developers can use Linus to test Docker images or improve the hardening of their deployed web application. System administrators can use Linus to run daily health scans to discover new weaknesses. IT auditors can use it to show colleagues or clients what can be done to improve security. And penetration testers can use it to discover security weaknesses on systems of their clients that may eventually result in system compromise. This is actually a really cool tool that you can have fun with, even if you’re none of the above. So, you know, make sure to check this one out and see how you can harden your system. And it’s conveniently available to install in your distro software repository.

Ryan:
[1:02:53] You know, what’s really cool about this, Jill, is I didn’t know this existed in my cybersecurity course that I’m taking in college for cybersecurity. And this came up. This was one of the tools that I had to utilize in a virtual machine when looking for compromised stuff.

Michael:
[1:03:10] Ryan, this tool has been around since 2007. And you have not heard. Let me tell you when I heard of it.

Ryan:
[1:03:17] I never heard of it.

Michael:
[1:03:17] I heard of it when we covered it on this show.

Jill:
[1:03:20] Right now?

Ryan:
[1:03:21] Just now? Okay.

Michael:
[1:03:22] Just now.

Jill:
[1:03:23] I’ve known about it because of my students that were going into penetration testing and whatnot.

Ryan:
[1:03:30] Yeah, it’s really good. Like, really good. So when you run this tool, it gives you a report on all the elements of your system. It’s looking at user groups. It’s looking at the file system setups. It’s looking for known vulnerabilities. It’s going to tell you things that you need to patch that are unpatched. It’s going to go through your whole system and do a hardening test on it. When you talk about hardening, like people who are even into IT and things, a lot of times if you’re traveling internationally, your company will require you to get your laptop hardened. And one of the things that they do, of course, there’s multiple steps to that. One of the things is making sure that all the counts are locked down, that your BIOS, for instance, is locked so people can’t get into that. All kinds of different things. But running this type of hardening test is just one of the many methods you could see where there might be a possible vulnerability on your system. Really cool, really fun to play with. You know, get this, get Sandfly, start playing with some of these tools because with AI being as powerful as it is, you’re going to need them. trust me you’re going to need tools like this because ai is going to rock our world when it comes to uh security issues and vulnerabilities and everything else because you know it just allows people to quickly find and create zero day vulnerabilities on top of everything else yeah.

Michael:
[1:04:51] It is it’s probably going to rock your world it might pebble your world too.

Ryan:
[1:04:56] Yeah man michael uh no more dad jokes for the rest of the show okay oh.

Michael:
[1:05:02] Good thing we’re almost done with the show.

Ryan:
[1:05:04] We are done with the show. A big thank you to each and every one of you for supporting us by watching or listening to Destination Linux. However you do it, we love your faces. You can come join us on our Discord by going to tuxdigital.com slash Discord. Stop. I know some of you have heard this 100,000 times. Stop playing the episode right now. No, you listen. You listen to the whole rest of this little bit.

Michael:
[1:05:24] You listen and you listen good.

Ryan:
[1:05:25] You listen good.

Jill:
[1:05:27] Yeah.

Ryan:
[1:05:28] Okay.

Michael:
[1:05:28] I have an update related for details, so you better listen. And that update is that apparently Fitbit didn’t kill Pebble. Pebble itself just collapsed and went into insolvency, and they filed for that, and then Fitbit acquired it because of that, and they got all their assets.

Ryan:
[1:05:46] Sorry for being a jerk earlier, Fitbit and Google. My bad.

Michael:
[1:05:49] My bad. So thanks to Michael AI, as in me, I looked it up, and that’s the information. So we now know the information, And also it, there’s a comment about the person who founded Pebble and say, I’m going to, thanks for Google for doing this. And I’m like, well, You could have just done it yourself before the company. Anyway, but that’s good. So now we know Google is, at least in this particular, this one avenue is doing a good thing.

Ryan:
[1:06:22] Yeah, good job, Google.

Michael:
[1:06:23] Good job, Google. Yeah, well done. And if you want to give a mini clap to us, you can support the show by becoming a patron and going to TuxDigital.com slash membership and you can get a bunch of perks too. We’ll give you extra, we’ll give you mini claps back in the form of being able to watch the show live, get unendeed episodes of the show, get merch discounts, and you get special access to the patron-only post show that happens every week after the show and also the patron-only sections of our Discord server and so much more. So go to TuxDigital.com slash membership. And if you’d like to get in another special clap, then you can go to tuxdigital.com slash store and get all of the awesome.

Ryan:
[1:07:09] Now we go. There we go. I held it all up early this time, Michael.

Jill:
[1:07:13] Yes, you did.

Michael:
[1:07:15] And just, just for note, most of the time when Ryan holds up stuff, it’s not in the store. And, but you can, there’s a lot of stuff that’s in the store, like the shirt that Jill is wearing and the shirt that I’m wearing and nothing that Ryan ever is wearing. And it’s tuxdigital.com slash store. You get a bunch of cool stuff like shirts, mugs, hoodies, and hats and so much more. TuxDigital.com. Nibs for your stylus? No, not really.

Jill:
[1:07:40] Not, uh, no.

Michael:
[1:07:41] That’s what they’re called? They’re called nibs? I never knew. I never knew. Like, I was like, what is, I don’t know what this is called, but, okay, the thing on the end of a stylus, nibs, apparently.

Ryan:
[1:07:51] Nibs, yep.

Jill:
[1:07:53] And make sure to check out all the amazing shows here on TuxDigital. That’s right, we have an entire network of shows to fill your whole week with geeky goodness. Head to TuxDigital.com to keep those Linux penguins marching.

Ryan:
[1:08:06] Everybody, have a wonderful week. And remember that the journey itself is just as important as the destination.

Michael:
[1:08:15] That’s right, people. We’ll see you next week, except for Ryan.

Ryan:
[1:08:19] I won’t see you next week.

Jill:
[1:08:20] And thank you, Spazzy. Spazzy in chat. Spazzy C says, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap.

Ryan:
[1:08:27] Chill. Did he say clap, clap, clap, or just typed clap, clap, clap, Jill?

Jill:
[1:08:33] He typed it. I’m sorry. Yes. No voice there.

Ryan:
[1:08:35] Come on.

Michael:
[1:08:36] So technically, he’s saying it in chat because that’s a courteousness of us recording the show.

Jill:
[1:08:43] Yes.

Ryan:
[1:08:44] Okay.

Jill:
[1:08:45] Absolutely.

Ryan:
[1:08:46] It was such a good show. The fruit that was throughout this show was unbelievable. Whoever writes this show is a freaking genius, by the way.

Michael:
[1:08:55] You know what I say to that person, whoever wrote this show?

Jill:
[1:09:00] There we go. Woo-hoo!

Ryan:
[1:09:02] Please continue. Continue, please. Oh, please, Mark. Yes, more. I mean, you don’t have to, but more. More, please.

Jill:
[1:09:10] No, that was a great job. I love the theme. It was a lot of fun.

Ryan:
[1:09:14] It was fun.

Jill:
[1:09:15] Yeah.

Ryan:
[1:09:16] It was fun. So, yeah, that’s it. Go away now. Bye.

Michael:
[1:09:20] Bye. We’ll see you next week. Jill and I will see you next week.

Ryan:
[1:09:24] Bye-bye.

Michael:
[1:09:25] Bye-bye.

Ryan:
[1:09:26] Bye-bye.