Ryan:
[0:00] On this week’s episode, we’re going to discuss Linus Torvalds not finding much value in AI. Well, yet, because he’s going to find value in it when Skynet turns on. Welcome to Destination Linux, where we discuss the latest news, hot topics, gaming, mobile, and all things open source and Linux. My name is Ryan.

Michael:
[0:20] My name is Michael, and I think that he probably would say that as a negative value.

Ryan:
[0:26] But it’s still value, like you’ll have to recognize it.

Michael:
[0:29] Yeah, he’ll have no choice but to have an opinion. Yeah, that’s true.

Ryan:
[0:32] And who are you?

Jill:
[0:35] And I’m Jill. I might be AI, but Linus Torvalds has met me before, so he knows I’m not.

Ryan:
[0:43] He knows you’re cool about you.

Michael:
[0:44] Now everybody else knows that you’re not, too. You ruined the possibilities.

Ryan:
[0:49] You know, though, it makes sense that Jill would be AI, because she’s so nice. She’s so kind. It’s not human. It’s not normal. She may very well be AI, Michael. Actually, it makes more sense than anything else.

Michael:
[1:01] It does actually make pretty good sense. You know?

Ryan:
[1:04] Well, also this week, we’re going to discuss the latest Google improvement for Gmail. Boy, if you went to ProtonMail or something like that, you’re going to just regret that decision. You’re going to head right back on to Gmail. It’s like, just like how Windows has just improved Microsoft Windows with the recall feature. Google is taking the same playbook and they’re running it through Gmail. it’s unbelievable plus we got some linux gaming our software spotlight and more let’s get this show on the road toward destination linux.

Ryan:
[1:44] Our feedback this week comes from Kerneltux. They have this to say. Hey, Michael, Ryan, Jill, and Wendy, if she’s on the show. I mean, sometimes she hides behind the scenes in our patron room, so you never know. I just came up with an idea for AI and then GASP. I’m envisioning a chat app that’s trained on just the man pages of the apps you have installed with options to pull in that project’s online documentation. Not all man pages are created equal. It will have a Clippy-like interface. I mean, you have me at Clippy, honestly. Just say Clippy. But of course, it’ll be a Penguin. You enter stuff like, how do I transcode an MKV video to MP4? It outputs, you can use FFmpeg. Here’s the command you want to run. Maybe it can ask which video file you’re working on and give additional contextual info based on your system spec and whatnot, i.e. how long it will take for that file. It could also use it for tedious sysadmin tasks like updating, although not a feature that Michael would use. this person listens to the show this person knows the personalities of this show or things of that nature i actually do updates.

Michael:
[2:49] These days but for a long time part of the show so it’s clearly like you are a long time listener so we appreciate that and also i do update sometimes.

Ryan:
[3:00] Occasionally now he’s gonna do it right after the show potentially has uses for bug tracking reporting but that gets complicated anyway with my brain chewing on the news of how red hat is implementing llm’s ai it came with this i can’t vouch for everything it produces but thought it may create interesting discussion Kerneltux my mastodon username avoiding name collisions with one of the hosts and then he says p.s k runner am i right michael.

Michael:
[3:28] Krunner you are right yes krunner.

Ryan:
[3:31] What does that mean is that an inside kde thing i mean i know krunner is the app launcher that you just start typing and yeah.

Michael:
[3:38] Well it’s because krunner is so awesome because it can do so many things and it can you can do calculations not just app launching you can do uh running i see what you can do yeah you can do all sorts of stuff and you also set me up on a spiel about k-runner and uh good job good job Kerneltux oh.

Jill:
[3:59] K-runner is one of the best searches of any desktop it is good look uh you.

Ryan:
[4:04] Cannot deny the goodness.

Michael:
[4:06] And speaking of how good k-runner is check out the uh that’s it’s one of the 17 tips you didn’t know about kde plasma that i made a video about link in the description yeah.

Ryan:
[4:17] Kerneltux sets you up all.

Michael:
[4:20] The way around All right.

Ryan:
[4:21] Colonel Tuck. So let’s get into this. Number one, love your idea. I think, I don’t know about the penguin popping up or anything like that, but I do love a co-pilot.

Michael:
[4:30] It should be there like Clippy, but it’s an option you turn on.

Ryan:
[4:35] I like that.

Jill:
[4:35] There you go.

Ryan:
[4:36] A lot of times I don’t want something on my screen, but I love the idea of having a little icon I could click and then ask it some basic commands and questions and things like that and be able to answer based on specifically, I like how you limited it to say based on what you’ve installed. So you’re not just getting random man pages for various things. We actually did some research to see if there were things out there like that. Now we really couldn’t find anything that was as complete as what you’re saying. I think there’s people who’ve played around with variations, obviously within Linux, but nothing that would be all packaged together like this. And here’s my thing. I think it’s such a good idea, Kerneltux, that you should start working on it immediately. And you can come on the show and tell us how it’s going once you have it already. Isn’t that what they do in the community? If you like it.

Jill:
[5:19] Build it.

Ryan:
[5:19] You can’t be the idea person. You got to be the.

Michael:
[5:25] I mean, you can be the idea person if you have someone that you know who can build it and they’re willing to build it.

Ryan:
[5:31] Yeah. Jill, can you build this for Kerneltux?

Michael:
[5:35] Me? No.

Ryan:
[5:36] No, Jill. I would need time.

Jill:
[5:39] But I could eventually get partially there.

Ryan:
[5:42] Love it. She also believes in herself so much, too. She’s AI, Michael. That was an AI test. Just to see.

Jill:
[5:50] Of course she could. Kerneltux.

Michael:
[5:55] She can um.

Jill:
[5:55] You’re the og you’re one of our og listeners and i think this idea is brilliant having an ai chat app that is system specific is really cool we could all use that.

Michael:
[6:09] You could apply it to so many other things that’d be really cool yeah.

Ryan:
[6:12] New users would love it especially right imagine just being able to type in and get the actual steps that you need to do for certain tasks.

Michael:
[6:20] Yeah if you could understand like natural language of like just ask it a question and it gives you like the output and stuff like that would be awesome especially yeah the best thing is like if it it can know your system and you’re asking for something that your system can’t do because you don’t have the packages they could tell you what packages to get and that would be awesome yeah.

Ryan:
[6:39] That’s kind of the future of man pages i feel like i mean yeah having it self-aware.

Jill:
[6:45] And knowing you know what your work.

Michael:
[6:46] Projects you’re working on not self-aware of course she’s.

Ryan:
[6:49] Gonna go for that i.

Michael:
[6:50] Don’t want self-aware context aware sure but not Not self-aware.

Ryan:
[6:58] Jill’s taking the robot side already.

Jill:
[7:00] Yeah.

Michael:
[7:01] She’s taking the Terminator side. Not only should it be self-aware.

Ryan:
[7:05] But give it the nuclear launch codes as well. I think really that should be the thing it should have. Right, Jill?

Jill:
[7:10] It should have context for the nuclear.

Michael:
[7:14] This is a really cool thing. And if you would like to send us some community feedback, you can do that by going to DestinationLinux.net/comments or DestinationLinux.net/forum and send in your comments, questions, feedback, whatever you want. You can help us make content for the show by sending us your ideas and your thoughts and then we riff on it so that we can make parts of the show that we don’t have to put any effort in. It’s a good system.

Ryan:
[7:42] First of all, Michael, you stole my airtime because that’s my part to say. So ignore everything Michael just said.

Michael:
[7:47] And if you want to send in your comments…

Ryan:
[7:50] Go to DestinationLinux.net/comments

Michael:
[7:53] I already said that. I already said that.

Ryan:
[7:54] But it’s my part. You’re stealing my mic time.

Michael:
[7:57] Okay, it’s your part, but you know how last week where you changed it and moved the spotlight up for the beginning or the tip of the beginning? I’ve changed it so that I’m taking that spot for no reason at all.

Ryan:
[8:06] Oh, my gosh. It’s a hostile takeover.

Michael:
[8:08] It’s unbelievable.

Ryan:
[8:10] Unbelievable.

Michael:
[8:11] It’s not hostile. It’s just a takeover.

Ryan:
[8:13] Well, we can’t believe or we can’t agree on who should have that part. But we can’t agree that Linus Torvald is pretty awesome. And he was at KubeCon this week. And so I want to cover some of the things that he talked about high level at KubeCon. Because I think it’s interesting to go back to the creator of Linux and see where they see things going, including AI, which we’ll get to in their take on AI.

Ryan:
[8:37] But, you know, he doesn’t do a ton of interviews either. So I think it’s pretty neat when he has a chance to do one. So, you know, there was a lot of discussion at first in this interview, kind of about core issues, management issues, memory management issues and things that have existed in Linux for a long time. And the question was really kind of around like, hey, are you surprised that after all these years, you’re still dealing with some of these things that have existed way back then, obviously in different forms. But there’s still problems today like memory management and that thing. and he’s quoted as saying it’s interesting we’re still discussing core issues that i’ve thought were solved ages ago but new behavior patterns end up meaning that we still need to tweak these core things um but he also kind of reminisced on how painful in the past it was to manage things with linux which i think is interesting that maybe we don’t think about that you know 20 years ago uh, things were much worse things were a lot more disorganized when it came to getting patches in and now they have a very very good system in place uh with the.

Michael:
[9:44] Reverse windows this is so many years ago this is before git was a thing this was before it’s true like yeah like they had, version control a little bit but not really and uh for those who don’t know linus torvalds also made git uh but uh this is uh this is a time where they use the like email to keep track of code and And what a nightmare that must have been. I don’t like email now or ever. It’s a necessity that you have to deal with. But imagine trying to deal with code, like submissions and stuff through email. That just sounds horrible.

Ryan:
[10:20] There wasn’t a lot of people reviewing code either. I imagine he pretty much trusted himself. He didn’t have like Gray K. Hartman and others in there. So he was doing a lot of this stuff on his own. Of course, probably wasn’t as many parts to Linux Beckman either. there. But yeah, I could definitely see how it would have been a pain back then. And Linus created Git as well. So a lot of you probably use Git, some version of Git anyways, in your business, if you write any code. So he knew he needed to solve that problem pretty quickly when he came up with that. But yeah, he said that he never wants to go back to the pain of 20 years ago. So now if your stuff’s not ready by the merge window, he’s not taking it and has processes and things in place to make things much more streamlined, which I think is always…

Michael:
[11:04] It’s also a good policy.

Ryan:
[11:06] Yeah, absolutely. You know, there was a lot of discussion on security issues, which I’m always interested in, and the vulnerabilities that are in Linux, like any other OS. But as far as Linux goes, he did mention the community. He feels does an amazing job of fixing the vulnerabilities. He did, however, and this is very unlike him, to criticize something. thing. That’s a joke because he’s very outspoken. Criticized the IT industry as a whole with their imposing long embargoes on security bugs. And I really wasn’t aware of this, that.

Ryan:
[11:39] He said that people have these 90-day delays that they want embargoes for. And sometimes 90-day embargoes end up being more like 400-day embargoes, he said. And it’s very demoralizing for developers when they sometimes have a known bug that they need to sit on because they’ve agreed with some external party that they’re not going to talk about it. so i think what’s happening here is these companies get told hey you’ve got a vulnerability and there’s a kind of a handshake agreement of okay don’t tell anybody about it we’re going to get on it we’ll get it fixed and they want like a 90-day embargo uh and it ends up being like he said in some cases a year or more embargo where they still haven’t patched it but they don’t want you to talk about it. And this creates a really bad problem in, you know, your phone potentially and your operating system that you’re using. But he said the Linux team gives people a week and resists agreeing to any long embargo because he feels it doesn’t motivate issues getting fixed fast enough and hurts the community keeping these things hidden. What are your thoughts on that?

Michael:
[12:49] I mean, personally, I feel like this is a completely understandable position. The 90 day thing makes sense from a business perspective right you want to have the time to build it and all that sort of stuff but from the other side where you have the uh the developer side and like that it’s funny because you know like technology moves at a pace that is incredibly faster than just regular life day-to-day life right so like with a hundred years in most industries there’s There’s not huge changes depending on, you know, what era we’re talking about, but with.

Michael:
[13:25] Tech you can basically look at the difference in the same level that like you know industrial style a hundred years passes and you have this massive change that massive change happens in tech like every 10 years and every definitely every 20 years so with that kind of pace you apply that to open source development of a kernel that’s used on so many we’ve talked about many times where it’s it’s dominant on the supercomputers it’s dominant on the servers and all this other stuff It’s on the International Space Station, etc. But because it is used on all these different variations and all these different things, there are constantly people looking at it, changing things, adding improvements, fixing stuff that are more specific to certain types of use cases that to wait 90 days for something that they could fix in like, you know, a few minutes in some cases or maybe like a day or two is just holding back the progress because otherwise they would be ridiculously fast. So I feel like the perspective there makes sense. But at the same time, I also understand why the businesses would want more time so that you just don’t talk about our problems.

Ryan:
[14:34] I have a conspiracy theory with this whole thing. I feel like the embargoes are A, some of them potentially government knowing it’s a vulnerability and not wanting the company to hack it till they finish whatever investigation or thing that they’re doing, utilizing that. Number two is that the companies under hire so much that they don’t have any developers to put on it. And that’s why it just sits there forever being unpatched. Those are two conspiracy theories. But my third conspiracy theory I want to throw out there for everyone is that Boeing uses Windows.

Michael:
[15:11] How is that a conspiracy theory?

Ryan:
[15:14] Well, the reason is because they sent a shuttle up with people. That shuttle has been stuck for months now on the International Space Station because they don’t trust it to go back. And the only thing I could think of is they knew about the security issues. They had it on an embargo and they clearly use Windows. That’s why it’s not working.

Michael:
[15:35] Because you said the space station is Linux. They couldn’t have a technician come get it fixed.

Ryan:
[15:40] Yeah. Yeah, I don’t know what the problem is. Just launch a technician up there in space.

Michael:
[15:45] Exactly.

Ryan:
[15:45] With Linux and reboot it 15 times.

Michael:
[15:48] We’ll see.

Jill:
[15:49] Well, something else that’s really interesting about the embargo issue is this is also true for hardware. And Linus did touch upon that a little bit in this article, but I have heard him speak about that before. In fact, it was one of his issues back in the day with NVIDIA.

Michael:
[16:07] Those who don’t know linus and NVIDIA they have a very loving relationship yeah but.

Ryan:
[16:14] He’s very happy.

Jill:
[16:14] With them now he’s.

Ryan:
[16:16] Much happier yeah when we get into the ai like what is his thoughts on ai this is where he throws a little bone to NVIDIA and says the good side of ai right now is NVIDIA is finally stepping up to get involved in the kernel because like michael said yeah linux is on everything. So when you talk about all this AI implementation and all the servers and everything running it, NVIDIA doesn’t have an option but to support Linux better, which is great. I mean, I guess they could double down on stupidity, but thankfully they’re not. So that is a good thing coming out of it. Now, Linus’ take on AI. First, he was asked about using AI in the kernel development side, and he said it’s great for things like JavaScript, but hasn’t proven useful to him with source code. He said specifically, I’m much more interested in finding bugs proactively, doing code reviews and helping maintainers and developers write better code. I think we will get there, but we’re not quite there yet.

Michael:
[17:14] I think that if we get there, it’s going to be a very long time from now because it’s cool that AI can do certain, like if you’re writing code and you can have it scan and give you suggestions and you can like implement stuff like that is cool. like ai can solve things or like help you write code for example if you something’s not working and i don’t know like if you’re a programmer you’ve probably dealt with this or even if you’ve done any code whatsoever there’s some you’re doing something it’s where it should work fine you have no idea why it doesn’t you spend an hour or two just coming through everything like what is wrong and you just you’re trying to pull your hair out because it is so annoying and you find out on one One line about like line 74, there’s a missing semicolon that has broken everything.

Michael:
[18:01] And that’s the only problem where if you put AI to say scan would tell me what’s wrong, it will point that out in 20 seconds. That is awesome. That use case for it is awesome. But I saw a video where someone was talking about how AI writing from scratch, like writing itself, only outputs garbage. And their reasoning was interesting because they were saying that what the AIs are using to code is that it is basically taking all the code on GitHub and everywhere, including the terrible code, then outputting it out. And then people were putting that on GitHub, which it then pulls back in, making it even more terrible and creating this loop of bad code that the AIs will output if you have them do it like exclusively alone.

Michael:
[18:51] So that’s interesting. I feel like AI could be helpful in certain cases, but I think that if it ever happens, you’re going to have to only focus on good developers’ code and somehow pay the developers to let you model, scan, and all that stuff.

Ryan:
[19:10] Yeah. I mean, the whole idea of AI is it’s constantly… So as people who are good programmers rate that bad code that gets sent to them back from AI, then essentially it learns and…

Ryan:
[19:21] Supposedly would get better yeah that’s not what happens at the same time like i’ve used ai many times for different coding projects and it’s very good at scanning like you said to find the missing commas bugs that type of stuff it doesn’t understand context though because a lot of times it’s not built into the application that you’re running it on nor does it understand the infrastructure that you’re trying to run the program across. For instance, if you’re doing SQL, it doesn’t understand what’s in the database. It’s not even attached to the databases. And if you’re using something like Copilot or something that’s external from the actual tool. So I think in a lot of cases, the AI needs to be customized to the very tool that you’re running and have access to understand all of the infrastructure that you’re asking it to code upon in order for it to actually be useful. full.

Ryan:
[20:15] And so I think for this case, for Torvalds, I think if you had an AI that was written specifically to do core kernel bug repairs and fines, I think it would do much better than just generically what it’s here for. But I think it’s interesting. Part of me feels warm and fuzzy knowing that he’s still manually reviewing this stuff that makes it more special to me than if If you just said, no, I use AI all the time. Now I don’t even have to look at bug reports. Like that would be like, because there’s a certain company I feel like did that recently and like took out tens of thousands of computers.

Ryan:
[20:53] But the other side of me worries like, what about when Linus isn’t here anymore? Like who’s the people who are going to step up and have that much passion for it? So I am just voting for Linus to make himself AI so that he’s around forever.

Jill:
[21:10] There we go.

Ryan:
[21:11] Yeah. I like it. You know, we get his brain dump into like they did for Mycroft, where they took his voice. We need to take Linus’s brain and put it into AI.

Michael:
[21:21] So it’d be like we would make a. It would be spelled, you pronounce it Linus, but it would be spelled with L-A-I-N-U-S.

Ryan:
[21:31] The A-I-C capitalized.

Michael:
[21:33] Big capital.

Ryan:
[21:34] Nice. Linus. Nice. That’s really good.

Jill:
[21:37] I think another reason right now it’s not working for him is just because the Linux kernel is just so complex and so many layers that the AI can’t, you know, put everything together. You know, it’s just there’s too many. It’s too layered. It’s like having, if you need an AI for OpenGL or X.

Ryan:
[21:58] Yeah. Yeah. AI for X? Yes.

Jill:
[22:03] That’s basically, yeah. Yeah.

Michael:
[22:05] You know what’s funny is that if the AI would understand just as much of X that the developers do. Yes. Because it’s been developed for so long that there’s so many teams.

Jill:
[22:16] Layers.

Michael:
[22:16] And it is such a complex system that no one fully understands how X works. because it’s impossible because there’s like decades of developers and there’s hundreds of people who’ve gone in and out of the of the project so uh if you could like ai would probably be a good thing for that you know like maybe yeah well we.

Ryan:
[22:38] Don’t want x anymore we want wayland we just want wayland that works really well yeah.

Michael:
[22:42] We also want i mean i think a lot of people still want X but I do agree that wayland is the one that’s gonna it’s it’s the inevitable it’s not It’s not there yet, though.

Ryan:
[22:53] That’s true yeah we’re we’re probably about I feel.

Michael:
[22:56] Like 75 percent there like it’s.

Ryan:
[22:59] Yeah i’d agree with that yeah.

Michael:
[23:00] It’s it’s getting there it’s probably like a couple more years and we’ll probably be really good to go.

Ryan:
[23:05] But i feel like we appreciate all of the wayland developers out there and the incredible work you’ve done what you’re doing is the impossible it’s and you’re making a replacement for x so like yeah get it but you know it’s one of those things where just real Real quick.

Michael:
[23:19] Like for context of people who are like, hey, why is it taking so long? So Wayland started in 2008. It started getting a lot more momentum in 2012. And then it became like the thing that was the go-to and a couple of years later after that. So it’s not had that much time. But here’s the thing. X predates Linux, right? Right. So it was being developed by about almost like almost 10 years, not exactly 10 years, but like eight years or so before Linux was created. So they had 20 plus years of development of X before people started wanting to use Linux. And the reason I’m saying that is because with Wayland, they’re replacing something that they have to start with a competitor. x was competing with nothing so everybody it was it was what X was replacing was nothing use x.

Ryan:
[24:13] Or get nothing.

Michael:
[24:14] Yes so there wasn’t much to compare it to now you have x that’s had decades of development so it has some benefits a lot of those benefits and then a lot of other issues and uh waylon is coming to try to compete with this and people are expecting it to do literally really everything X can do instantly.

Jill:
[24:33] Yeah.

Michael:
[24:34] That’s difficult to do. So it’s taking a long time because it just takes a long time to build a display server. That’s just, that’s what it is. But it took X 20 years to get to where it was.

Jill:
[24:47] Mm-hmm. Well, the fact that I can do the show right now on Weyland is very impressive.

Ryan:
[24:54] Yes, absolutely.

Michael:
[24:55] That’s true.

Ryan:
[24:57] All right, Michael, there was some other drama, though, that happened this week.

Michael:
[25:00] Are you talking about The Cloud?

Ryan:
[25:02] The Cloud. The Cloud. Yeah. McCloud.

Jill:
[25:06] Linus had something else to say about The Cloud.

Ryan:
[25:08] What movie is that from?

Michael:
[25:09] The Cloud, The Cloud, The Cloud?

Ryan:
[25:11] McCloud, McCloud, McCloud.

Jill:
[25:14] McCloud.

Michael:
[25:14] It’s Highlander.

Jill:
[25:15] Highlander.

Michael:
[25:17] Highlander.

Ryan:
[25:17] The Cloud.

Michael:
[25:18] Yeah.

Ryan:
[25:18] Remember? Like, McCloud.

Michael:
[25:21] I was, I was thinking, I was thinking, um, for some reason, cars. Cause McQueen.

Ryan:
[25:29] McQueen. Okay. Yeah.

Michael:
[25:30] I don’t know why.

Ryan:
[25:32] I don’t know. That’s sad. You went for cars and I had.

Michael:
[25:35] I do. I actually, so speaking of Highlander.

Ryan:
[25:38] It’s a very uncool reference. Okay.

Michael:
[25:40] You’re right. I got, I did not get that reference. However, I can literally tell you, give you word for word, the theme song to the highlander movie / tv shows uh and it’s been embedded into my head forever i don’t know why the keepers.

Ryan:
[25:56] Of the world something like.

Michael:
[25:58] That but it starts off i am immortal i have inside me blood of kings nice there’s a lot to it anyway uh we clown while we’re talking so um for those who have not um that movie is interesting and kind of silly it’s from the 80s and the tv show is from the 90s so it’s dare you whatever that’s silly amazing um it is it’s it’s wonderful silliness okay what’s the point.

Ryan:
[26:25] Of the story michael just get into the topic.

Michael:
[26:27] Oh we’re talking about rust oh.

Jill:
[26:30] So we are talking about cars i guess his sword.

Michael:
[26:32] Could be rusty Rusty? Yeah, a sword could be. Yeah, exactly. A sword, a card. All these things could be rusty. I don’t know why we went off on that tangent. That’s my bad. But let’s talk about rust. and how the main developer for the Rust in the Linux kernel has decided to leave the process. And so this is a very interesting thing because other Rust developers are weighing in on the topic. So they’re talking about their code not being respected by C developers. And there’s basically this kind of fight sort of battle dome between the C developers and the Rust developers. developers and it’s interesting because like i get why you know you a brand new language comes around because people don’t like change let’s just say that’s the because that’s probably what it is truly people don’t like change you know the c programmers listen.

Ryan:
[27:25] I love your faces you do a lot of great work but you know you’re being catty you know you’re being catty if you look in the mirror i bet you’re being catty i bet you’re being catty you’re being.

Michael:
[27:35] A little bit like is rust a terrible language no no it’s one of the only languages ever allowed to be in part of the kernel like that’s the it’s it’s got to be good enough to be in the kernel right so yeah is it the worst no if if if they were trying to put javascript in the kernel then yeah i can see why people would get mad at that but uh this is i i feel like i feel like you’re you’re right it’s it’s a catty approach and i just okay come on people come on yeah.

Ryan:
[28:04] So what’s leading this whole initiative, you know, and then him exiting to me is a really bad sign that after almost four years of contributions, this person’s leaving, which means there’s probably other Rust people who are doing code that will probably feel like they need to leave.

Michael:
[28:24] Especially if the person who’s leading the process decides to leave, that’s a bad sign because that means… Typically, that means that more will follow.

Ryan:
[28:35] And they said specifically past tantrums from respected members of the Linux community, meaning that they felt we’d be past tantrums from members of the Linux community is one of the reasons why they’re leaving. But apparently those little tantrums are still there.

Michael:
[28:51] That’s never going away.

Jill:
[28:53] Well, I actually remember reading an article recently about how it was so hard for the C developers to work with the Rust developers just because they don’t necessarily know Rust as well, so they feel a little less comfortable.

Ryan:
[29:12] They feel a little rusty?

Michael:
[29:13] Yeah.

Jill:
[29:13] Yeah.

Michael:
[29:15] So that’s an example of not liking change, but also not willing to expand their skill set of languages. So I understand like there. I’m not saying that that’s necessarily a bad thing. Being catty and having like a battle between like, oh, your language is terrible or whatever. That part is there’s never going to be a good idea to do. But in say like, you know, is C better? I don’t know. Is Rust, I don’t know. But there’s pros and cons for any language you ever use. You’re never going to find the perfect language. So I feel like if you’re not even willing to see if it’s a better option, that’s just forcing yourself to live in the past kind of thing. You know? I mean, I get it. I don’t want to update my system sometimes.

Ryan:
[30:08] Sometimes we’re saying some of the tantrums are literally from Linux kernel maintainers saying things like, here’s the thing. You’re not going to force us to learn Rust. And, you know, Philo’s.

Michael:
[30:20] OK, that’s not a great take.

Ryan:
[30:23] All of this is, you know, he feels that Rust is far more memory safe language for Linux and it’s a good place for it to be. And I think a lot of people were very excited about the Rust integration, especially when you have even desktop environments being created in Rust, like what System76 is putting together. I think Rust is a fascinatingly amazing language. And yeah, I would think as a C developer… You would, unless you’re getting close to retirement, be interested in picking up some new skills from Rust. And Rust, vice versa. They all should be trying to learn from each other. Why can’t they all just get along? That’s the question.

Michael:
[31:06] It’s an open source thing.

Ryan:
[31:08] Just get along, people. Get along.

Michael:
[31:10] That is the ultimate question.

Ryan:
[31:12] Maybe I should go in there and just be the enforcer. You know what I think you should do?

Jill:
[31:17] You’re a great manager. Thank you.

Michael:
[31:20] You should write a book on this particular thing.

Jill:
[31:23] I should. Yeah.

Ryan:
[31:27] Oh, man.

Michael:
[31:28] How to switch from C to Rust by Dotsky.

Ryan:
[31:31] And from Rust to C. See, I think they should both be learning from each other. I think there’s a ton that you could learn from the C developers, and I think the C developers could learn a ton from the Rust developers. And I want Rust in the kernel because here’s the thing. It’s not about just having an extra language in there. It’s about having new people get into the development of the kernel, having new people attracted to doing development in the kernel. Because if everyone we have is aging and we’re not bringing in new blood to learn how to do this, Linux dies, people. We’ve got to get excited. And the younger folks are not learning C. They’re learning Rust. Some are learning C, but very few. They have very big problems getting people all around to get C developers in the first place to actually work on a Linux kernel. So Rust brings this exciting new entry point for the young.

Jill:
[32:27] Yeah, great point, Ryan.

Michael:
[32:30] There’s also people who are talking about trying to get new kids excited into programming and trying to get new blood, like you said, into different projects and just open source in general.

Michael:
[32:44] And lowering the barrier of what they want to do is what is the best way to go. Because it’s interesting because if you look at most open source projects are started by someone who just wanted to build something and then they move on. and or they keep it going like the curl developer who’s kept it going for years and it’s awesome it’s an awesome project but then there’s uh but he’s also like the main person who builds that project i think there’s maybe like a couple contributors here and there but he’s like the main developer and he’s been that way it’s been that way for like at least a couple decades right so having trying to get new people into a thing means that you have to somehow lower the barrier entry because let’s say let’s face it see and rust it’s easier to get into rust because not only is it memory safe you don’t have to worry about certain types of things it’s also the hype language it’s being talked about and it’s being promoted everywhere so people are just interested in it so they’re more willing to do that and if you refuse to adopt something that actually has potential to be first. If it’s not usable, then you shouldn’t adopt it. But we already know that it is because they already adopted it.

Michael:
[34:03] And if it’s also getting you to get more people like Ryan was talking about, that is the most important thing. If you need to have a project that is sustainable, and if you don’t have more people coming in, how can it be sustainable beyond, you know, your career in that sort of thing. So when you said that they were actually saying that, you’re not going to make us learn Rust, I mean, that… Honestly, I was disappointed. Like, that’s a terrible reaction to this kind of thing. And I hope that changes.

Jill:
[34:37] Me too.

Ryan:
[34:38] Jill, let’s leave this whole thing on a positive note, though. It turns out that we have another of course you did Jill moment that you actually interviewed Linus at a conference.

Michael:
[34:49] Of course you did.

Jill:
[34:50] Of course.

Ryan:
[34:51] Tell us about it.

Jill:
[34:53] Oh, my gosh. I was so nervous. I got to talk to my hero, and it was just an amazing opportunity. It was at the Open Source Summit. And by the way, that’s where Linus was speaking at from this article we’re talking about. He ended up on the KubeCon stage, but he was actually there for Open Source Summit.

Ryan:
[35:15] Oh, interesting. Okay, that makes more sense. Because I’m like, he doesn’t do a lot.

Jill:
[35:18] Yeah, because he is paid by the Linux Foundation that runs the Open Source Summit. And so he usually makes an appearance at one of the events at least once a year, sometimes twice. And I got to talk to him after his awesome keynote at the Open Source Summit in 2017 here in Los Angeles. And oh my gosh, I got 20 minutes with him alone.

Ryan:
[35:46] Wow, Jill.

Jill:
[35:48] I was wearing my hat, of course, the one I wear at scale. And I talked to him about how I installed Linux from floppy disks I downloaded in 1992 from my brother’s Elite BBS. And he said, wow, you started using Linux in the alpha stages. And he was very impressed. He’s like, you were using Linux in the beginning. and to have him impressed over me. Of course. Oh my gosh. And it was just like, really like having a conversation with one of my computer nerd friends and just so natural. We just hit it off. And I also talked to him about my involvement in the Linux Chicks of LA and that we do Linux install fests. And he was very happy to hear that there were still hands on Linux install fests because that was rare, And it’s getting even rarer these days. So we just had some of it. I’ve forgotten what he said because I was so freaked out.

Ryan:
[36:54] You were starstruck.

Jill:
[36:56] I was starstruck.

Michael:
[36:57] I love how Jill is blushing just thinking about it. Years later. Yes.

Ryan:
[37:03] Like he’s still there right in front of her.

Michael:
[37:05] Yeah. Just telling us about this. Yeah.

Jill:
[37:08] And he was very much a gentleman to me and just very kind and sweet and took time out to talk to me. I am sure my penguin hat helped. And during his keynote, I was sitting front and center on the first row right in front of him. So he saw me his whole talk. And he actually, I just went up to the stage afterwards and some of the workers there knew who I was. And I said, oh, Jill, please, you can be the first to talk to Linus.

Michael:
[37:41] Oh my gosh.

Jill:
[37:42] Of course they did. Yeah. And I got an awesome picture with him as well. And everyone was saying they have never seen him smile that much.

Ryan:
[37:55] Jill brings happiness to even Linus Torvald.

Jill:
[37:58] But it was so amazing. I wanted to talk to him more, but people started lining up, of course, to talk to him. And he even said, could you come back in an hour? I’d like to talk to you more. Wow, man.

Ryan:
[38:14] I don’t think if we met Linus, he’d be like, hey, can you guys come back in an hour, Michael?

Michael:
[38:19] No, he would say come back in an hour, but that’s before we have the conversation so we can jump out the back door.

Jill:
[38:24] And that was an awesome story it was so amazing and yeah i just i i still to this day can’t believe that happened and honestly that was the year i started podcasting doing linux podcasting so what year was this jill uh 2017 2017 so you were.

Ryan:
[38:45] Still installing linux by floppy disk in 2017.

Jill:
[38:48] Yeah, probably.

Michael:
[38:50] She’s still doing it now, right?

Ryan:
[38:51] She’s still doing it today. She got the latest mint on floppy.

Michael:
[38:55] Mint 22 on 222 floppiness.

Jill:
[39:00] Yeah, absolutely. That’s great.

Ryan:
[39:04] What an amazing story, Jill. And one of my favorite quotes is, leave everyone you meet better off for having known you. And I feel like you leave everyone you meet better off for having known you. You You live the quote that I just like. So I think that’s pretty amazing there.

Michael:
[39:19] I think that quote was designed with thinking of Jill, you know?

Ryan:
[39:24] Yeah, of course. Yeah. She’s the one who actually does it. Whereas I just think it’s a cool quote. All right.

Michael:
[39:31] You try, but she actually does it. Yeah, exactly.

Michael:
[39:35] So let’s move on to the next topic because the next topic is really interesting. It is about Armbian, which is the distribution for single board computers. And there’s no question that we love our single board computers or SBCs for those who like initials for some reason. Well, if you’re rocking a raspberry pie or an orange pie or a banana pie or some other kind of fruit or berry or whatever, so we’re excited when there is a new release of Armbian because it is a Debian-based distribution for these kinds of computers. And this release is packing some exciting new updates. And one in particular will be the best one that you could possibly imagine. And that is having KDE Plasma desktop environment in it. And apparently it’s using the KDE Neon version of it, which is much more up to date than the Kubuntu versions. Although that will be changing in a couple months or so. So I’m excited for that, too. But let’s talk about.

Ryan:
[40:39] There’s also Gnome XFC and Cinnamon, Michael.

Michael:
[40:41] No, no, no. Let’s talk about KDE Plasma. So that’s very important. All right. So KDE Plasma is a fantastic desktop that I typically use.

Ryan:
[40:48] Here we go someone shut off his mic quick uh no i knew you’d be excited about the kde part i mean you know you don’t do a lot with raspberry pies but i bet you you’re gonna do more now that you know kde is available to it like i.

Michael:
[41:02] Actually would do it more with kde kde because uh, by default they have on raspberry pi os they have like the uh lxde like a forked version of lxde And for those who don’t know, LXDE was the original, like the predecessor to LXQt or LXQt. And that doesn’t exist anymore. LXDE does not exist anymore because they transitioned to LXQt. And apparently, for some reason, the Raspberry Pi people decided to fork it. That’s like the only, I love Raspberry Pi. I love the hardware. I love what they’re doing. I love their mission and their goal. I’ve always been confused by why would you fork a desktop environment that is, not being made anymore and you have to take over all this stuff and it’s also super minimal and super i get it i get it’s minimal but there are other things that are just as light or lighter it’s like why here’s the.

Ryan:
[41:55] Kde here’s the kde rub.

Michael:
[41:57] Because you know michael is not as light as kde is not as light as lxde i will say that it’s as light as but it is much much better than every other desktop ever created not biased in any way uh just because all right well there’s.

Ryan:
[42:11] Some other Other things besides KDE in this release. Oh, is there? Yeah, you’ve got security fixes, plus long-term support for Odroid C1, Nanopie Neo, BananaPie, ClearFog, Helio 64, and TinkerBoard devices, plus brand new boards like LibreAlta, Solitude, Roxa E25, Rock 5C, RISC-V 5V64, and BananaPie F3 as well. And you also…

Michael:
[42:41] All of these different boards that exist, they need to think about making it easy to say. Banana pie, orange pie. Those are good. It’s very clear. But radza? Yeah. I don’t even know what that is.

Jill:
[42:56] It should just be rad. It’s a rad board.

Michael:
[43:00] Rad board.

Ryan:
[43:01] There you go.

Michael:
[43:02] There you go. You’re welcome, people.

Ryan:
[43:04] You’ve got the 3D acceleration support for the ThinkPad X13, which is pretty dope. nice and you get some 4k 60p video acceleration for kde plasma michael and gnome but kde plasma mostly i just say mostly because michael likes katie and i am not i’m.

Michael:
[43:22] Not someone who only reuses kde plasma i just use it the most it’s very different.

Ryan:
[43:27] Yeah big tree tech cb1 io board for your 3d printing projects by the way i use a now a nano pi 2 to run octoprint for my 3d printer and it runs fantastically. It’s such, that little board also runs a camera for OctoPrint that allows me to see my 3D prints as they mess up. They don’t always go well.

Michael:
[43:51] They typically do.

Ryan:
[43:53] Yeah, sometimes. Depending on the slice, it can be messed up. But Armbian is very versatile, stable, amazing, and a great OS for a single-board computer. I love everything about what they’re doing here, all the hard work that they’re doing, and just want them to get some mad appreciation for all the awesomeness in Armbian. So good job, Armbian development team.

Jill:
[44:16] All right, you know what?

Ryan:
[44:17] We need more AI talk. So, you know, Windows announced this week that recalls back on the menu meets back on the menu, boys. And this one’s a horse.

Michael:
[44:33] Of course it was going to be like, it’s funny when people said, hey, they’re pulling it back. No, they’re not. We said this when they announced they’re pulling it back. Yeah, they’re pulling it back for a while until people forget. And then they bring it back. That’s how they always do it. It’s Microsoft. This is not new. What is new is that this idea is so hilariously bad that they’re basically making people leave windows. And thank you. Thank you very much. And everybody who, uh, everybody who’s making competitive to Gmail, like proton mail or two to Noda or whatever are thinking the exact same thing. Thank you, Google for doing something so stupid that makes people want to leave your system.

Ryan:
[45:19] You know what they’re doing? Google is like, oh, you’re doing recall, Microsoft. Well, hold my beer. Hold my beer. We got something, too. They announced they’re integrating advanced AI capabilities into Gmail. And I quote, to improve user experience. Who loves that quote? No matter what it is, we’re stealing all your data and selling it to improve customer experience.

Michael:
[45:42] That’s the only reason we could ever do this. It’s okay. Don’t worry.

Ryan:
[45:47] It’s so good. I love it. uh including better email organization and smarter responses uh have you tried to use like the new google ai assistant recently like you know you do like gemini or yeah in general well not just gemini the one on your phone you know where you’re like hey google do this whatever it’s so dumb it’s so bad i end up getting mad and saying like why are you so stupid tell your developers how stupid and worthless you are and i’m hoping it sends the message to the developer because it’s so dumb like i asked it a simple question about like an inline six motor versus a v6 motor do you know i’m a big motor head i know nothing about cars and i was just asked this question while i was driving and i was like oh man you know i’ll use the voice assistant to just look this up and it just kept saying like uh i’m not able to answer that question i’m not able it was just like look up the difference between the inline six and v6 horsepower that’s all it was like just look it up online how hard is this anyways so they say they’re very hard for google.

Michael:
[46:49] You know the company that started as a search engine.

Ryan:
[46:51] Oh my god just search for it on the web and read dummy like how hard you’ve done before.

Michael:
[46:56] And just take the data and tell me what it says.

Ryan:
[46:59] You literally don’t even have to use ai you could just do an if then statement like if they ask for this search it on the web and read it like you don’t even have to interpret it just freaking read that’s all i needed you to do google it’s the same thing with.

Michael:
[47:13] Like um the the search like when you do searches now on google it gives you ai answers and some of the time it’s helpful but most the time it is just nonsense and you have to go like you have to go check it and i i think ai is great but in certain ways ai is awful this is a way that is not only awful it is a horrendous thing to do and it’s also violating a um not necessarily a promise because google doesn’t promise anything anymore but it’s they’re they’re violating the thing that they claimed that they were going to stop doing a few years ago which is you know scanning all your emails for everything you say yeah.

Ryan:
[47:56] Yeah they said they were going to stop that obviously they’re not stopping that if they’re integrating this into the tool uh so if you didn’t think Google was reading your emails before. Uh, well now they’re just not only reading them, they’re going to process them all through AI. And the good news is that, uh, now you’ll be able to say like, Hey Google, uh, Oh, it literally just launched. Shut up, Google. You’re stupid.

Jill:
[48:19] Right.

Ryan:
[48:20] So what you could do when you say it is look up my emails that I had for taxes in 2022. And because it’s read all your emails and filed them and sorted all of them, it will pull those up. It’s also extraordinarily convenient if your email gets hacked for a hacker to be able to get to the information they need very quickly.

Michael:
[48:40] They can just search for, what’s the login information for your bank?

Ryan:
[48:43] Yeah. Give me all of the emails that contain login information and it will just sort it for the hacker and they have it right there, which is super convenient. They won’t have to spend so much time in your inbox anymore.

Michael:
[48:55] I’m so happy they’re thinking about the hackers. Aren’t you?

Ryan:
[48:57] Yeah. They’re going to save them tons of time. And Windows recalls the same thing.

Michael:
[49:01] Yeah.

Ryan:
[49:02] I sit in these forums and these groups of people who pull off these hacks. Most of the hacks that you see are not sophisticated. Like you read or see in a movie or you read in books. Most of them are things like a login URL, where if you change the last digit, it logs you into somebody else’s ID because they leave the ID in it or little things like this. And then the whole thing with phishing is they’re not very advanced either. You know what they’re looking for when they get access to your Gmail? Generally, they’re looking for the seed words or the crypt words for your Bitcoin wallets so they can open them because a lot of people save that stuff in Google Photos. They take a picture of it, you know, and it gives you your passphrase to get in your crypto wallet or your other things. They take a picture of it and it loads into a cloud. So they just search for that stuff. And this type of technology just makes it so much simpler for that to happen and get those seed words and phrases to be able to break in and steal your, you know, crypto and all that stuff.

Michael:
[50:04] I do that sort of thing where I take a photo of stuff and I have it there. So it’s because it’s faster to get the information that way than it is to just type it out myself. But I do not allow it to sync to anything. It’s just on my phone. If my phone ever crashes, then I’m screwed. But it does not sync up to anything because I don’t want to risk that sort of stuff.

Ryan:
[50:27] Yeah. I mean, there was a time where they thought, we can’t allow people to just go through your mail in your mailbox. And they created a federal law that stopped anyone from being able to go. It’s a federal crime to enter your mailbox and pull out your mail and start reading it. But somehow we’re all fine with corporations now and governments going through everything in our email and digital lives. And it’s just so weird how we don’t care. So many don’t care.

Michael:
[50:55] And tracking us on everything we do. And also, if you have some random app that has nothing to do with where things are or localized any data whatsoever, they’re still asking. Let’s say you buy an LED light or something, and then it wants your GPS coordinates because reasons.

Ryan:
[51:14] There was a generation that didn’t want the government involved in their business, and I think they were smarter for it. You had to get special permission to put a wiretap in. You had to get special permission to be able to bug a house. All of these things.

Michael:
[51:30] Well, the problem is that this is not about government access and government having control over things or your information. It’s about people hating the government so much that they, for some reason, just accept every private corporation to do the same thing or even worse.

Ryan:
[51:50] Who then partner with the governments. Like, they’re all partnered with the governments anyway.

Michael:
[51:53] Oh, that’s true, too. But I’m just saying it makes even less sense to be like, oh, you can’t do this because the government’s evil or blah, blah. And then just accept, like, that’s the best example. I think that is a fantastic point you just said, because it just triggered the idea of like, you know, people like I have nothing to hide, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Why should I care? They have my data anyway. You should just care on principle. Like, if you don’t want the government to have your information, why would you want anyone else to have it? Just care on principle alone.

Jill:
[52:21] So, actually, my first thought when reading this article was that this is the AI that Google should be focusing on something useful. But, you know, because I use Google Search.

Ryan:
[52:32] Finally, Jill’s going to get hate mail for the first time ever.

Jill:
[52:35] Yes, for the first time. Because it got me at first. I was kind of excited because I use Google’s search feature in Gmail on a weekly basis to find old emails and topics. And it is a marvelous tool and what sets it apart from other email services. So that’s what made Gmail so great. But on the other hand, using AI to curate Gmail is really scary unless it is used in a sandboxed and secure way. And if we can determine that it’s sandboxed and secured, which we can’t. So now I don’t like it.

Michael:
[53:09] I mean, I can tell you, I can confirm that it will not be sandboxed.

Ryan:
[53:16] Someone was in the middle of writing a hate mail to Jill and just had to delete it because she’s like.

Jill:
[53:20] No, I don’t like it.

Ryan:
[53:21] And I’m like, oh, dang it.

Michael:
[53:22] Yeah, exactly.

Ryan:
[53:22] We deleted their Gmail.

Michael:
[53:25] Uh but it’s funny the thing that the thing that make that people are not going to like about this is the same reason people like gmail because since the beginning of gmail they were scanning your data and giving him that’s why it was easy to find and you know find topics and stuff that you had emails for in the search system because they were scanning it all and then they like 15 years later which is only like a few years ago they were saying something like uh hey you know know how we used to scan your data we’re not gonna do that anymore and now they’re gonna scan it even more so and then process it and do all this other stuff so you can search better you can search the same way you’ve always searched i don’t see this fine the.

Ryan:
[54:05] Way it worked before you.

Michael:
[54:07] Know uh.

Ryan:
[54:07] To use this tool you’re going to need google one ai premium or google workspace space plan uh with gemini business enterprise education or education premium.

Michael:
[54:17] You get to pay for it just scanning you But.

Ryan:
[54:20] That doesn’t mean they’re not scanning all your emails to use with their AI. Just if you want to access what they’re scanning, that’s what I interpret it as. I don’t know that’s the case, but I’m guessing it is. That’s how it works. You want to use the same search we have to look into your privacy? You want access to the same tool? So we have, that’s how I kind of interpret that. All right, Jill, listen.

Ryan:
[54:45] This world sometimes is without reason. You know, there’s no reason for all this trash, this privacy trash, all of this.

Jill:
[54:54] Yeah, so our game this week is a really fun and quirky game called World Without Reason.

Ryan:
[54:59] Oh, no kidding.

Jill:
[55:01] It makes sense.

Ryan:
[55:01] What are the odds?

Michael:
[55:03] What are the odds that Segway works so perfectly?

Jill:
[55:05] Yes.

Michael:
[55:06] Ryan wrote the show. He knew it.

Jill:
[55:08] Yes. The game on Steam actually describes itself like this. Miss Audacity is the only sane mind in an unreasonable world. Help our protagonist as she tries to remember the past in order to save her sister, her friends, and herself, and a shadowy figure which looms over the small island nation of Calloway City. This is a visual novel game that is very well done and has a lot of cool features. characters like um it it is a story actually of loss adversity and redemption but it has eight hours of reading time and and some voice acting which i was impressed with and there is actually a full glossary containing all the characters locations and tricky terminology used and it has two main endings and six alternate endings and a chapter map showing all major Yeah. But of course, on your PC, not in book form.

Ryan:
[56:32] Man, I love the Choose Your Own Adventure book. Me too. I remember talking about them a while ago. Man, they were so good. Yeah, we grew up with those. I cheated in those books all the time. I’d be like, go to page 66 and see what happens. Oh, you die. All right, going back. Didn’t do that. Let’s go to page 33.

Michael:
[56:48] Didn’t do that.

Ryan:
[56:49] Live. Okay, that’s what I did.

Jill:
[56:52] Yeah, absolutely. I think I went through all of them. Every one they ever made. They’re so good. and uh the the characters for this game are hand-drawn very comic style while the backgrounds are real photographs which a lot of visual novels have utilized but this one is very well done the story progresses nicely and easily and the questions and prompts are actually really easy to read and the menus and graphics tie in very thematically with the story and the sound effects and music are on point. So it’s just a fun romp through interesting stories. This game, World Without Reason, is on Steam and has a free demo available that works on our Linux Penguins out of the box. And it costs just $10 for the full game. And it’s definitely something that I’m going to be buying. I’ve already gone through the demo.

Ryan:
[57:44] Very nice. It was a lot of fun.

Michael:
[57:46] Wow.

Ryan:
[57:47] Now, Jill, we’ve got to update your, because listen, we’re trying to reach the younger kids, It’s kind of like Rust is trying to bring in the younger crowd into the kernel. So you said romp. We need to come up with something a little more newer than that. Can you say it’s got a lot of Riz or it’s Sigma?

Michael:
[58:06] It’s got a lot of Riz.

Jill:
[58:08] Yeah. Riz.

Ryan:
[58:10] It’s got lots of Sigma.

Michael:
[58:12] It’s got so much Riz, no cap.

Ryan:
[58:15] No cap. It’s not Ohio Dog Water. That’s the other one.

Jill:
[58:20] To me, it’s still groovy. it shows my age groovy still works you know what’s groovy jill.

Ryan:
[58:29] Our software spotlight.

Jill:
[58:30] Yes it sure is if you want to play around with the world of virtual avatars which are groovy for online meetings with friends or other fun events you might want to check out face tracker it’s available as a flat pack and packaged under the awesome mit license this tool makes face tracking really easy. Face tracker is a graphical user interface, which actually launches a face tracker locally on your machine to gain tracking data from a webcam. The tracking data then can be used in other applications like V2 being software to bring a virtual avatar to life. So it basically creates the diagram that the camera needs for the other applications.

Michael:
[59:20] That’s very cool.

Ryan:
[59:22] Nice i’ve had people.

Michael:
[59:23] Actually like request suggestions for how they could do a vtuber thing in linux so that’s there you go this.

Jill:
[59:31] Is perfect yeah.

Ryan:
[59:32] Very very skibbity all

Ryan:
[59:36] right so the tip of the week michael we’ve got we’ve got to bring in the younger generation man skibbity yeah yeah yeah for rizzle yeah we gotta rizz up the audience okay all right speaking of rizzing up the audience man this next thing i am super excited about michael and jill will tell you like how excited i was genuinely i’m not even playing this up genuinely excited to share this with you now this goes against all principles of privacy security all of that stuff like i’m just I’m just going to tell you up front, after all of that speech I just gave you, I’m going to throw that all out here. Not really, because there’s not a lot that you’re giving away, because it’s a social media site. But it’s called SpaceHey.com. SpaceHey.com.

Michael:
[1:00:27] So why are you so excited about a new social media website? What could possibly make you excited about yet another social network?

Ryan:
[1:00:38] It’s MySpace again. They took the code of MySpace and rebuilt it into SpaceHey.com. And I’m telling you, it’s got all of the amazing features you love. It’s got so much Riz. It’s just skivvity. It’s just skivvity. It’s so skivvity. It’s got the ability to make your own custom page, your own customizations to the page. So, for instance, if you go to my page, which we’ll have linked in the show notes, my social media site on Space, hey, you’ll see that it’s written in like terminal style. Like it’s got the black and green terminal style kind of look. And it’s just the simple social media stuff like that used to be before things got so complicated and stupid. Like it’s just like, hey, movies, hey, music, you know, that you like, just the basic things. And then if you want to follow someone, there’s no feed. You follow them, and then you can check on them, how they’re doing. It’s just, I don’t know, man. It brought up a lot of great memories and thoughts and all of that stuff. I just love it.

Michael:
[1:01:46] When you first showed it to me, I had never heard of this, so I was… um somewhat happy to see this back and also disappointed because i remember, the horrible days of myspace where people had like just tons so like it was a cool idea originally it was amazing originally myspace had a great idea like give customization options you can just put a code and you have an image and all this other stuff i was like that’s great Oh, you could add some CSS and modify. That’s cool. And then people found the Blink system in HTML. And then people found animated GIFs. So good. And then they just went insane.

Ryan:
[1:02:30] So good.

Michael:
[1:02:31] And going to MySpace was basically a form of self-torture. And it was just too much. So part of me loves the fact that Space Hay exists, bringing back that piece. And the other part of me will avoid it like the plague because I don’t want to deal with that same sort of thing happening. But you’re going to make a profile.

Ryan:
[1:02:52] Right? You’re going to make a profile.

Michael:
[1:02:53] I am going to make one, yes.

Ryan:
[1:02:54] Of course, yes.

Jill:
[1:02:56] Yay.

Ryan:
[1:02:56] We’ll have our profiles linked in the show notes. And look, don’t put anything out there that you don’t want people to know. Like, that’s the whole point of this. But to me, not being forced to read other people’s feeds itself or the algorithm of it because it’s just some project. It has over a million people, by the way, spacehey.com have already signed up for this. That’s how powerful nostalgia is. That’s how much people miss the simplicity of just, I want to follow somebody because I saw something cool they said. I don’t want an algorithm telling me what I want to see. And from that aspect of it, I just love it. Like I hate every social media platform out there. I hate X. I hate Facebook. I hate Instagram. I hate them all. and i kind of just really fall in love with the old school space hey.

Jill:
[1:03:44] You know i like understand and follows you well it’s not tom it’s in but they follow you you know what when i i found out about this a few days ago i was uh the you know what the best thing about it is is that it loads the pages faster not that you know you have more modern computers but you you know i’ve, You remember, you’d go to someone’s page and it was like 20 pages deep and it would take forever to load it because you were on old Modem.

Michael:
[1:04:15] Jill, that’s true. But also, you’re underestimating the amount of junk that’s going to be added to these profiles.

Jill:
[1:04:23] Yeah, it’s going to go exponentially.

Ryan:
[1:04:27] This is where my design capabilities come to the forefront of the internet, Michael. now i’ll be a great designer again because i can do blinking under construction signs i can do all the things that make websites great how many.

Jill:
[1:04:43] Visitors do you have ryan.

Ryan:
[1:04:44] Yes i’ll have a visitor counter in there yeah super accurate too super accurate so your tip of the week today is not only a tip it’s frankly a gift like i’ve given you an early christmas gift yes yeah and so we We will have our profiles linked. Hopefully, we’ll be friends with each other by then. Yeah. Because Michael hasn’t friended me yet, so I don’t know if we’re friends or not.

Michael:
[1:05:10] I haven’t made a profile yet. Jill hasn’t made a profile yet.

Jill:
[1:05:13] Not yet.

Ryan:
[1:05:15] I guess we’re not friends.

Jill:
[1:05:16] Oh, we will, though. We will.

Ryan:
[1:05:18] We’re not friends.

Michael:
[1:05:18] In my defense, you didn’t tell me it existed until the beginning of this show. So, I had no time. I had no time.

Ryan:
[1:05:24] I was so excited. I sent it to my wife. I was like, we’ve got to create profiles on this. she was pumped too because it’s like space space hey i mean come on man he hasn’t friended me either what’s that mean oh no what’s that about what’s that about there you go you’ll have a marriage counselor soon

Ryan:
[1:05:43] all right a big thank you to each and every one of you for supporting us by watching or listening to destination linux however you do it we love your faces come join us on space hey no i’m kidding come join us on discord by going to tuxdigital.com/discord also space Space Hay. Come join us there. What if we had the most followers ever on Space Hay? We become the rulers of Space Hay. Imagine the riz we would have, Michael. We would riz up the planet if we’re like, we’ve got 200,000 followers.

Michael:
[1:06:14] Ryan, that would be so bussin’.

Ryan:
[1:06:16] That would be so bussin’.

Jill:
[1:06:17] But it also makes sense because back in the early days, it was the place that you found music that musicians and bands advertised on. And now we’re the next generation of that with our Linux podcast.

Ryan:
[1:06:31] That’s right. So we will be bussin’. and if you watch the show live and be busting with us like if you were watching the show live you would know about space hay days earlier and you would already be on it and ahead of everyone else but because you’re not a patron you don’t know about this now everyone’s already joined us they’ve already linked up and you’re gonna be coming in there like that person that shows up at the party 30 minutes late and didn’t even bring any alcohol you’re that person now because Cause you weren’t a patron and yeah.

Michael:
[1:07:04] So don’t be that person.

Ryan:
[1:07:05] Don’t become a patron.

Michael:
[1:07:10] We go to tuxdigital.com/membership to become a patron and you get access to, first of all, you get access to things that we’re talking about, like our space, Hey early, but also you get access to watch the show live. That’s how you would get the space. Hey information, but you could also watch the show in an unedited form. We’re bringing that back, by the way. And that is something where if you’re not able to watch it live, that’s okay. You can just get the unedited version and watch it that way. And you can enjoy it. And it’s all its glory that we normally would cut out, but you get to watch whatever we did live. That we had to cut out if you wanted to.

Jill:
[1:07:52] Yes.

Michael:
[1:07:52] So tuxdigital.com/membership to get all of that. And you also get special access to the patron-only section of our Discord server. And you get to join us in the patron-only post show that happens every week after the show once we’ve done recording. So you get all of this and more. tuxdigital.com/membership. And if you’d like to support the show in another way, you can go to the tuxdigital.com/store. So you can get t-shirts. you can get hoodies you can get mugs you can get like some stickers not the one that he’s holding up and maybe those at some point actually uh i’m not sure if they have this because we got those for my like for this for scale so i’m not sure if those you would have.

Ryan:
[1:08:33] Some of these.

Michael:
[1:08:34] You if you join the scale you get those yes so it’s it might be possible to put those on the on the store too so we’ll see about that uh microfiber cloth i haven’t found the solution for that so that’s not there. But other things are coming and I actually have… The people who are listening to the audio version, Ryan’s just holding up random stuff that’s on his desk. And I’m just reacting to them. But go to tuxdigital.com/store to get all the stuff and much more because we’re actually going to be adding some more stuff here soon. And I’m working on desk mats. So be sure to check out the store.

Ryan:
[1:09:09] You better buy one right now. I’m back.

Jill:
[1:09:12] And make sure to check out all the incredible shows here on Texas. That’s right. We have an entire network of shows to fill your whole week with gookie geekness. Check out the DOS geek channel. Ryan reviews awesome tech, discusses ways to keep your privacy intact online, and geeks out on all things open source and Linux. So make sure to check it out. And everyone head to TuxDigital.com and subscribe to all our awesome shows. And don’t forget to leave a rating on your favorite app so others can discover the power of open source and keep those penguins marching in the full Monty of Linux and open source awesome sauce.

Ryan:
[1:09:51] Everybody have a great week. And remember, the journey itself is just as important as the destination.

Michael:
[1:09:59] Nicely done. You didn’t even have to look at the notes for that one.

Ryan:
[1:10:04] Most of you. I did look down.

Michael:
[1:10:08] You did? I think I did.

Ryan:
[1:10:11] I was like, yeah, what comes after? What comes after? What comes after journey? Oh, yeah, destination.

Michael:
[1:10:19] What’s the journey part? Wait, are we talking about the band journey?

Jill:
[1:10:24] You’ll have to tell Rocco you finally memorized it. That’d be lying.

Michael:
[1:10:34] Thanks for watching, everybody. We’ll see you next week.

Ryan:
[1:10:37] See you.