Michael:
[0:00] Welcome to Destination Linux, the heart of gold of open source adventures, where every commit zaps us through the galaxy with infinite probability drive. I’m your author, Arthur Dent this week. Why am I Arthur Dent? Michael, bumbling through the tech cosmos in my bathrobe with my trusty Penn Galactic crew, ready to answer the ultimate question of Linux, life, and everything. Jill is our trillion, brilliant code-navigating astrophysicist who can refactor a bash script faster than she can outwit a Vogan poetry slam. Ryan is our Ford Prefect, roguish hacker, hitchhiking rides through server galaxies with a towel and a knack for patching systems before they’re demolished.

Ryan:
[0:45] You never want to forget a good towel. You always have to bring your towel with you.

Michael:
[0:49] You always have to have your towel. Absolutely. This week’s Galaxy Quest or Galactic Quest. Actually, Galaxy Quest is a guy like that one better.

Ryan:
[0:58] That’s cute. Like two references in one.

Michael:
[1:01] Exactly. We’re probing the eco-friendly circuits of the Fairphone 6, diving into listener feedback on chasing tech dreams and exploring the IP lookup GUI Flatpak tool, as well as many, many more. We have some few surprises from the universe’s edge you don’t want to miss out. So grab your towel, sync your repos, and remember, in open source, the answer is 42. But you still need to get a source code to know why. Let’s hitch a ride. This is Destination Linux.

Ryan:
[1:39] Don’t forget your tail. You always need a tail.

Michael:
[1:42] Don’t forget to bring a tail.

Jill:
[1:43] I didn’t understand you, Michael. I have a fish in my ear, but I couldn’t understand you.

Michael:
[1:49] I mean, don’t you need a fish in your ear?

Ryan:
[1:51] Fish couldn’t translate.

Michael:
[1:53] Wow.

Ryan:
[1:54] You’re babbling. Is it babbling that you have because you’re Arthur Dent?

Michael:
[1:57] No, you said bumbling. Bumbling.

Ryan:
[1:59] Bumbling. Babbling and bumbling. Multiple.

Ryan:
[2:03] Yeah. Well, this week in our community feedback, we got some feedback from Frank, and they say, Dear Ryan, look, it’s to me, Michael. I got my own letter.

Michael:
[2:13] Was it hateful?

Ryan:
[2:15] No.

Michael:
[2:16] Oh, that’s great. That’s great.

Ryan:
[2:18] Shockingly.

Michael:
[2:18] For a first time ever.

Ryan:
[2:19] You know what was hateful is Cousin Lisa’s comment on our last YouTube episode, Jill. So, first of all, Cousin Lisa, right? That’s the name.

Jill:
[2:31] Yes.

Ryan:
[2:32] Left a message saying, wow, Ryan is really annoying this week with a little like.

Jill:
[2:38] Wink.

Ryan:
[2:39] Little wink or something on there. And Jill, I take it. This is your family. I expect you to wrangle them back in. I don’t expect hateful comments from a Jill family member of all people. So is your cousin, Lisa, your evil twin? Is that what?

Jill:
[2:56] No, she just meant that in fun. She, I don’t know. Yeah.

Ryan:
[3:02] Lisa, if it really was fun, if cousin Lisa really is your name. I mean, who named? I found it pretty fun to begin with.

Jill:
[3:14] But she is very direct, but has this wonderful sense of humor and you are, are witnessing that sense of humor.

Ryan:
[3:22] After listening to last week’s episode, I was probably right. I was, I was a little on fire. I had to get Michael to LARP as a Raptor and you have to understand to do that requires a lot of convincing, you know, a lot of annoying.

Michael:
[3:37] I mean, you were just annoying, but the whole Raptor thing, like all you had to say was do it for the patrons. And it was like.

Ryan:
[3:41] Boom, done yeah well it took me a while to get there i had to find the right formula to get to find the path you had to bumble through the galaxy to.

Michael:
[3:47] Get the path.

Ryan:
[3:48] Cousin lisa you’re on notice but back to frank.

Michael:
[3:51] You’re on notice.

Ryan:
[3:52] Dear ryan i too suffer from the affliction of having hand tremors in fact i’ve been diagnosed with the nine essential tremors i really hope that someday i can have something done about my hands that tremor it’s really hard to type on the computer do any kind of internal hardware work because my hands are so bad at times that I can hardly do anything meticulous. News that there’s going to be some advancements made from a gaming company and other companies working on cybernetics to help people that have disabilities is great news to me. Right now, I push a broom at Walmart and clean bathrooms, but my heart is always with computers and of course Linux. I’ve been into computers ever since I was a young kid back in the late 80s, early 90s. I hope one day I could get an IT still. That sounds like you’re in it now, Ryan. How do you function in it with hand tremors? Well, first of all, Frank, thank you so much for sending this. Also for allowing us to read it publicly because we did check that. If you do want to send us a message and keep it private, you can. But I think it’s really important to share this type of stuff. What’s interesting is I’ve always been hesitant to ever talk about it. And when I made YouTube videos, even before I started doing Linux YouTube videos, I would notice when I would hold a product up, it would be shaking in the camera.

Ryan:
[5:10] And so what I would do is I would spend all this time in the videos editing, slowing down frames or doing or doing using a still picture of the product. Sometimes I would take the video of me holding the product and just make it still picture instead and show that as I’m talking over because I kind of wanted to cover up that to get people from not saying, hey, why are your hands shaking? That type of thing.

Ryan:
[5:32] As a kid I remember it being more of like kids would always mention it like hey your hands are shaking when I would eat and stuff like that especially but I never really had it bad enough, you said you have the nine essential tremors I never really had it bad enough that I felt like I couldn’t type on a keyboard or work on computers although there are times where I had to use my hand my other hand to kind of stabilize if I was trying to get to a tight spot and get a tiny screw. I would have to do that at times. So fortunately, mine are not bad enough that, it’s kept me from being able to do the things that I want to do. And obviously, I don’t know the severity of the situation you’re dealing with with yours. But I never really thought of it at any point as something to hold me back or to not do it other than I always wanted to keep people from kind of noticing it. Um, so that’s kind of how I, I dealt with it. I was lucky enough, uh, that my dad ran a computer, small computer business in, in Florida. And so when I went there, uh, you talked about pushing brooms at Walmart. My first job was cleaning my dad’s store. And so he would have me clean the windows and clean the desks and everything else. And that was my job for him.

Ryan:
[6:53] And he paid me $0. Because at night when I was done with my shift, My payment was, I’m going to train you how to build computers and how to program. And that’s your payment. Now, as a kid who was 13 at the time, this pissed me off. I’m not going to lie. I was like, I want money.

Michael:
[7:13] That is the worst thing for a kid.

Ryan:
[7:15] My friends were working as waiters and they were working at McDonald’s or I think even grocery stores, Publix at the time, those type of things. And they were making money that they could go out on the weekend and spend. And then you grew up and you appreciated it.

Michael:
[7:30] Right?

Ryan:
[7:31] Yeah. And that’s what I wanted. I wanted money. But he was like, no, you get no money, but I’m going to teach you computers. So looking back, I’m very thankful and very lucky I had that opportunity.

Ryan:
[7:43] And even though I didn’t appreciate it as much back then, I appreciate it a lot now. And he’d give me gas money and money to go to a movie or something. But I didn’t get a paycheck for a long time until I started actually making money for the business. And then I got a paycheck. So I was very lucky to have that exposure early on, but there is no point, like, you know, I’m pretty old now and I decided to get into cybersecurity. I’ve had 26 years in telecom and now I’m switching to cybersecurity. So I don’t think at any point.

Ryan:
[8:18] You should stop and say, well, I can’t do that. It’s been too long. I’m too old. I’m too far out of it. There are other people who started off too early. Just do it and move forward because your passion for whatever you’re getting into, the fact that you love computers, is going to outweigh anybody else having the advantage of maybe starting younger because they may be getting into it because the money’s good or it looked like the easiest degree to get or whatever reason. but you have a true passion for it. And that’s going to show up a lot in your interviews and in your work and things that you’re doing. So my advice to you is to start now, start creating a portfolio, start creating projects, start working and figuring out which part of IT you’re the most interested in, and then see where you can go from there. And Jill, I know my situation is an annoyance, but you’ve also dealt with the very serious situations with your eyesight and things. So I don’t know if you have some different thoughts you want to share.

Jill:
[9:20] Yeah, no, completely. I was fortunate in that I have really good closeup. I just don’t have in one eye and I just don’t have any distance. But for the most part, it didn’t stop me from doing a lot of things I wanted to do. The tough part was in like, for instance, in college, I had to take tests where you had to be able to, to, to see the television studio where the lights were and everything. And I would, of course, fail those tests because I couldn’t see them. But, and, but I still got A’s in the class anyways, because I worked my bottom off with, you know, and, and with every other test, you know, passed with flying colors. But I remember in particular, the studio test. Well, it was partly my fault. I didn’t tell my instructor I was half blind.

Ryan:
[10:12] Yeah.

Jill:
[10:13] So when he found out, and I still passed that, I still got an A on the test. I just missed the several of the questions regarding which lights were hanging in the studio that we had to answer. And because I just couldn’t see them at all. They were too far away. And he said, Jill, well, why didn’t you tell me? And I said, I’m just not used to telling people. I’ve always done things my way and got through things. So, but there are times it would have been nice to be able to tell, you know, people and the instructors or they look at me funny. Even, you know, sometimes crossing the street, I’m very slow at it because I’m so careful. And there have been times of like, you know, I really should have a cane.

Ryan:
[10:58] Yeah. I get lots of comments where people are like, oh, you must have taken an energy drink or you must have had a tons of cups of coffee. And sometimes that’s actually true. I have. But other times I hadn’t had anything and I’m still, my hands are shaking or whatever. And so people like, and I’ll just say, yeah, I had a lot of coffee or yeah, I had an energy drink. Cause I don’t just, I don’t want to get into it with random people, you know, but it’s just one of those things where I understand what you’re saying that you don’t want to necessarily go around and just tell people like.

Jill:
[11:27] Yeah, exactly. And I didn’t want anyone to know because I didn’t want to be treated differently. Yeah. So that was, you know, I just, I was told when I was a little kid, I probably wasn’t going to drive, which I don’t. And there were certain things my doctor told my parents I probably wouldn’t do, but my parents didn’t treat me any different than with a child that was full-sighted. So that really was good for me. But there are times when it would have been nice if people knew. well what’s interesting is.

Ryan:
[12:02] Oh go ahead joe.

Jill:
[12:03] Oh so what i was gonna say uh ryan was i’ve had students um that have um had parkinson’s disease really bad that shake really bad and that that couldn’t utilize you know use the mouse for the the fine grain control it takes to do animation, and i would just i would just let them take longer and have have more time to do their projects And that usually worked.

Ryan:
[12:30] And there’s special devices now too, right?

Jill:
[12:33] Yeah, now there is. There wasn’t when I was, yeah.

Ryan:
[12:35] Yeah, no. When I had those students. There’s a lot of cool things. Thankfully, like my trembling is not that bad where it seems to affect my typing or using a mouse or those types of things. But there are devices meant for that. There are accessibility settings also that are meant for that. What’s interesting about my situation too is my mom was an RN. in. So, you know, I had a nurse in the house and, uh, they kept thinking I was diabetic for a long time cause they could never get to the bottom of why my hands shook. So I had so many tests done where, you know, drinking those sugary drinks and all that stuff. And it would always come back negative. And, uh, it wasn’t till probably 10 years ago that I happened to be going to a doctor for a regular checkup and they noticed my hand shaking and they said, Hey, have you ever had that tested out? And I’m like, yes. I was like annoyed. I was like, yes, I’ve had a million tests. I’m not diabetic, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they said, um, I know exactly what you have because I have the same thing. And she held out her hand and her hand was trembling. So it was really interesting. It’s a neurological disorder. There is no cure for it. There is medication that you can take, but the pills have side effects. So this goes back into what’s interesting. I don’t, first of all, I hate taking any pills unless it’s vitamins. Take a lot of that creatine and protein. But outside of that, I don’t take any, I don’t like taking any prescription pills because of the side effects and things and all that.

Jill:
[14:03] Horrible. Yeah.

Ryan:
[14:04] I would be more interested, funny enough, if you gave me the option, if it was a trusted company of putting an implant in to solve it, right? I think that is more of less invasive than taking these pills that are doing, I don’t know what in my brain chemistry or system and things like that.

Michael:
[14:22] What if the pill is made by the same company?

Ryan:
[14:25] Is it blue or red pill?

Jill:
[14:27] That’s a big.

Michael:
[14:29] It’s probably a red pill.

Ryan:
[14:30] Oh, man. I don’t know. I’ll probably take it just because it’s a red pill. Um, but I think it’s very interesting.

Michael:
[14:36] Green pill.

Ryan:
[14:37] Who wants a green pill? Was it NyQuil? That’s ridiculous.

Michael:
[14:41] I mean, you’re all green behind you.

Ryan:
[14:43] That’s true. I trust anything green. Uh, really interesting, Frank. Again, uh, we don’t know your exact symptoms and things. So it may be, you know, you have, uh, obviously, uh, dealt with this for a long time. You have this passion for computers. I would say find a way in and anything we can do help. Let us know. and if you find anything that does help you, Let us know because I would love to bring it to other people because I think there’s probably a lot of people that deal with a lot of different accessibility issues. And I would love to bring the solutions out to people. Or if you’re not Frank and you have a suggestion on some accessibility things, you can write us by going to destinationlinux.net/comments or destinationlinux.net/forum and send in your feedback or suggestions and things that you yourself

Ryan:
[15:33] or friends or family members have helped them get over some of that type of stuff would be awesome.

Michael:
[15:38] As Linux users, we know what’s up. Security is non-negotiable. But with threats getting smarter, your security tools need to keep up without dragging your system down, of course. And with traditional agents, they slow you down, they leave blind spots, it’s time for a smarter approach. That’s why Destination Linux is proud to be sponsored by Sandfly Security, the revolutionary agentless platform designed for Linux. So go to destinationlinux.net/sandfly and see how Sandfly can transform your security strategy. Sandfly doesn’t just detect and respond. It revolutionizes security with SSH key tracking, password auditing, and drift detection, covering threats from every angle. Whether your systems are in the cloud, on-premises, or in embedded devices, Sandfly ensures they’re all secure without the headaches of agent-based solutions. So you can actually get started with a free trial and see what Sandfly can do for you. You can also test out the home edition if you wanted to, and then deploy that into your business if you want to do it that way. So you could try it out even more. However way you want to do it, there’s many different options. But listen to what Selinda Lekamge of Tate Communications has to say. He says that Sandfly addresses a serious security gap in the industry, intrusion detection on Linux platforms. The best part of Sandfly is its agentless nature, making it a versatile application for any Linux environment. So experience security that’s not just effective, but gives you peace of mind. No agents, no downtime, just cutting edge protection.

Ryan:
[17:01] Michael, you mentioned the home addition, which we when we met Sandfly at their booth, they mentioned a lot of you had gone out there and checked this out. So thank you for doing that, supporting them, help support us. And it’s a big circle of love there. But you can get a 50% off discount because you’re a listener to this show by typing in the code destination50. And as you’re checking out Sandfly and checking out with your new home edition, also check out their blog. If you go to their site and go to their blog, there’s so much. You know, I’ve talked about cybersecurity is what I’m going to college for now, kind of switching career paths. And you can get so much awesome security information right there in their blog. And they even include things like detecting packet sniffing malware in Linux and different topics like that to get you more versed in security. So whether you plan on getting the home edition or you’re still on the fence, bookmark Sandfly. Go check out all the awesome information that they have there on their website.

Michael:
[18:03] Absolutely. So go to DestinationLinux.net/sandfly. That’s DestinationLinux.net/sandfly to check out all of that and see how Sandfly can transform your security strategy.

Ryan:
[18:15] Michael, we’re always right on this show. 100%.

Michael:
[18:18] Always right. There’s never a time where we say anything that backfires the next day.

Ryan:
[18:24] Just like when I said Michael LARPs for a living outside, that’s his real job outside of this podcast.

Michael:
[18:30] That’s not remotely true.

Ryan:
[18:30] That is 100% right.

Michael:
[18:32] Not remotely true.

Ryan:
[18:33] Wait, you just confirmed earlier, though, that… Everything we see.

Michael:
[18:37] We’re always right. Not you are always right. Oh, that’s very different.

Ryan:
[18:41] What were we right about this week?

Michael:
[18:44] Well, we were right about Fedora 32 bit library proposal being withdrawn, actually, because we said that this proposal was just a discussion. It’s not going to be anything like what people were worried about. It’s not going to be affecting the gaming. This is just more of a conversation just being started to see where it can go. and we found out where it’s going to go. And that is nowhere because it has been withdrawn. So that’s pretty much it.

Ryan:
[19:08] Destination Linux, 1,155,000 facts, correct?

Michael:
[19:12] So Jill, there’s an awesome project that you wanted to bring up. So what is that? Tell us about that.

Jill:
[19:18] So, you know, there’s been so many Linux distros moving away from the XORG display server to Wayland. As a result of that, there are bound to be new alternatives for running X11 application on desktops. Wayback is one of those alternatives and looks quite promising. When I heard Wayback, I’m thinking of the Wayback Machine on the Internet Archive.

Ryan:
[19:41] But you know, Jill, when people say Wayback now, they’re thinking of like our childhood. When kids this generation are thinking like, man, way back in the day, they’re thinking when we were kids now. I’m like, no, Wayback in the day is like 1800s or 54 BC.

Jill:
[19:58] Or

Michael:
[19:59] Like or like like a hundred years ago like the 1920s or something like that now but like it’s it’s funny because of the whole like vintage now means 90s and.

Jill:
[20:09] It’s uh what the heck has happened sorry jill this has nothing to do with what way back is but the name is cool and so it just it’s a good name though it is a good name i just look at it’s wayland back so wayland uh pre-wayland supporting, you know, old…

Michael:
[20:28] Yeah, it’s bringing back things to Wayland. It’s really… It’s a good name, but also… It does remind me of sadness with the vintage being 90s.

Jill:
[20:37] Yes. Kids these days. Aw.

Michael:
[20:40] Get off my lawn, kids.

Jill:
[20:42] Yeah. Oh, my God. For me, it’s the 70s. So get off my lawn.

Ryan:
[20:48] That’s way, way back.

Jill:
[20:49] That’s way, way back. Okay. So Wayback is actually an experimental Wayland compositor that supports X Wayland, allowing X apps to run on Weyland without a full X server. And it is designed to bridge the gap between X desktops and Weyland. And it allows X11 applications and desktop environments like Cinnamon or XFCE to run on Weyland by hosting a rootful X Weyland instance.

Michael:
[21:23] That’s awesome. That’s basically taking the idea of X Weyland, which was kind of made for just applications and then pushing it a little bit forward so you can have the desktop environments that are not like cinnamon and xfce are being built to support wayland at some point but they aren’t yet but there are some that have specifically said they have no intention of porting it to wayland like i3 like the reason why sway exists is because it’s basically a wayland version of i3 because they the developers of i3 didn’t want to do that So in a way, if this works, I know it’s experimental, but if this works, which would be very cool, you could just run X11-related stuff on top of this and still have everything running if you wanted it.

Jill:
[22:04] Yeah, absolutely. Connell, who is one of the original developers behind Alpine Linux, is leading way back. And it aims to replace X.org in Alpine Linux and maintain compatibility with classic X desktops like XFCE, Cinnamon, LXDE, and FVWM. It has the potential for broader adoption as a safety valve for users who still rely on classic X desktops. I am using WindowMaker right now using xWayland on my podcasting rig to record Destination Linux. But I have used RatPoison, Flexbox, Ice, WindowManager, XFCE, Blackbox, Enlightenment, TWM, and the list goes on and on.

Michael:
[22:53] All of them.

Jill:
[22:54] Yeah, I have used all of them.

Ryan:
[22:56] What about i3? Have you used i3?

Jill:
[22:58] I have, actually, and the awesome desktop.

Michael:
[23:00] And also, of course, Joe’s.

Jill:
[23:03] Yeah, oh, yeah. Thank you. uh joe’s is classic jwm for those who don’t know it’s joe’s window manager yeah jwm is awesome, and so in fact actually that was like the third or fourth episode of that i recorded with dl i use joe’s oh yeah yeah and also a.

Michael:
[23:23] Lot of people who use puppy have used jwm because it’s like it was a standard for puppy for a long time.

Jill:
[23:28] It was you’re exactly right so there’s you know so many options i have now to continue to use my favorite classic desktops you know the more options the better you notice there’s.

Ryan:
[23:42] Any like performance issues or differences when you’re using it jill.

Jill:
[23:46] Um with with x wayland yes there are sometimes sometimes especially um like for instance i’m using obs sometimes there’s a little bit of a slowdown with it uh but it’s so minuscule that you don’t notice it i mean it’s so there’ll be like maybe like a half second you know pause that i wasn’t getting before and also this is.

Michael:
[24:13] With xwaylin and the way back they’re gonna be different implementations of how these kind of these things are done.

Jill:
[24:18] But with way.

Michael:
[24:19] Back it’s being it’s very early stages it’s experimental but also it’s not just a project to be made for the sake of being made it’s also being made with a purpose of being a replacement solution for alpine linux because Alpine is one of those that one of those desktop projects that is, you know, built to do multiple different configurations. Like it was, I’m pretty sure it started as like a container based system. And now they’ve, they’ve introduced desktop and stuff like that. So being able to still have a support for X11 stuff would be good for that kind of thing. And I think this is a fascinating project. And I think there’s so much potential to make so many people happy about this, because you can still have all the stuff you want with X. Because the thing about X-Wayland is a lot of people were worried about not being able to have their DEs that they wanted because X-Wayland was not necessarily exclusively focused on applications, but it was mostly talked about in the application space. And having something like this where you can keep both, that sounds perfect.

Jill:
[25:19] Absolutely. And if you want to contribute to Wayback, you can do that via pull requests on their GitHub repository. That would be a fun project to contribute to if you can.

Ryan:
[25:32] It’s a great way to give back to. And sometimes if you’re not a coder, there is, you know, documentation, there’s all kinds of different things, even project management sometimes of bugs and things or organization. There’s all kinds of ways you can contribute.

Ryan:
[25:48] So if you’re very passionate about this, then go check that out and get involved. I have something really interesting. You know, I have mentioned that I use EOS with my Fairphone 5 that I have.

Michael:
[26:02] Yeah, 4, I think.

Ryan:
[26:03] 4. 4.

Michael:
[26:04] Man, I’m two generations behind. I don’t think the 5 ever came to the US.

Ryan:
[26:08] Did the 5 never come? Yeah. Okay. That’s sad. I’m so far behind. I’m way back.

Michael:
[26:13] You’re way back.

Jill:
[26:14] Yeah, you are.

Ryan:
[26:15] Because the Fairphone has- What a callback right there.

Jill:
[26:18] The way back machine.

Ryan:
[26:20] Of the fair six which is june 25th they announced this for 599 dollars of monopoly money which i don’t know what that translates to american freedom dollars anybody about.

Michael:
[26:32] I think i think it was like either 799 or 899 something like that.

Ryan:
[26:36] Is it that i don’t know the trend is that is it i don’t i i.

Michael:
[26:39] Mean i’d have to do the math but you know the funny money versus real money i mean there’s a.

Ryan:
[26:43] There’s a lot of comparison by the way if you’re not a long-term listener we We used to have Zeb on our show from the UK and that was our joke that we would say, don’t, we’re not being serious. Okay.

Michael:
[26:53] Although this is true though, if you go to Google and like it should work right now, I’m going to test it as we say it. If you go to Google and say, what is 599 euros? in real money it tells you 707 us dollar.

Ryan:
[27:12] That is hilarious, okay um well they introduced a real thing.

Michael:
[27:19] People look it up.

Ryan:
[27:20] They introduced a ton of upgrades over the fairphone five and uh fairphone by the way you sent me the four i’m two generations behind i feel like this belongs in a museum now even though it works amazing and i love it i still feel like it belongs in a museum because there’s a six now so i don’t know just ship one over our way just put that out there no pressure but give us give us phone uh you know they have 12 swappable parts now up from 10 on the fair phone five so what is the great thing about a fair phone it’s completely upgradable michael this is going to blow your mind. I mean, you’ve not seen something like this in 20 years. You can pull the back off the phone and replace the battery.

Michael:
[28:07] That’s crazy.

Ryan:
[28:09] And it’s still thin. Look how thin this phone is. There is no reason.

Michael:
[28:14] It reminds me of the old style of the Motorola modular phone, which is like these huge bricks that you could take these little pieces off. It was cool, but it was also So it looked janky, but I don’t remember when this came out, but it like having a nice phone that’s like it looks like a modern phone that also is modular and be able to replace things. It sounds like magic.

Ryan:
[28:39] Yeah, it is magic. What Fairphone does is magic over there, which means you can actually repair your device. You can replace the screen. You can replace the battery without having to use a hot air workstation to undo the glue or to remove rivets or all the other nonsense that’s put into phones to keep you from being able to repair them. You can repair this phone entirely. And they even have new accessories. accessories so like on my phone i like to have a magnetic little wallet holder and things like that because i don’t even carry a wallet with me anymore so i just have it slapped to the back of my phone and now they’ve gotten into the accessory game as well so if you’re like oh i don’t know if i want to switch from my iphone to this because of my accessories they got you covered and their accessories look really really good which i think is really cool that they put that out there. The specs are awesome. You got your OLED screen with 120 hertz adaptive refresh rate. You got your Gorilla Glass. You got your IP55 rating. So it’s got, of course, new processor, new memory, all of the good stuff to make it super fast. But did I mention it’s completely repairable and that makes it unique to almost any phone on the market right there?

Jill:
[29:52] Also- It’s the framework of cell phones.

Ryan:
[29:54] I like that. Those two companies need to work together on something. Do you imagine?

Michael:
[29:59] Yeah, that’d be awesome.

Ryan:
[30:00] That’d be awesome. Talk about getting two amazing companies together.

Michael:
[30:03] So I want to make a really, really quick note. I think this Fairphone 6 looks awesome. And I think the functionality is awesome in everything. But I’ve heard two complaints that I’ve seen repeatedly around in forums and Reddits. And I just wanted to be like, if it matters to you, this is it. uh the there’s the only two complaints i’ve seen uh they removed the microphone jack uh which to me i originally had a problem with when i had a phone that didn’t then i switched to a phone and then got these like you know the the bluetooth air buds stuff those are actually pretty awesome and i’d rather have those anyway so uh i was hesitant about the headphone jack but once i got the Bluetooth earbuds, I don’t mind it at all. The other thing is, and I think this is probably the only caveat here, is that you showed on the four, when you took the back off, you just pulled off the back. On the six, there’s some screws that you have to take apart. They’re tiny little screws. There’s just two of them, but that’s the difference. So I feel like this is not a big deal because I don’t change my battery hardly ever. So like, I mean.

Ryan:
[31:16] You can’t change your battery on any phone but the Fairphone so that’s.

Michael:
[31:20] That is very true.

Ryan:
[31:21] I mean you can but it’s it takes a professional with a rework station and a lot of work on.

Michael:
[31:27] My current phone yes that is very much true yes.

Ryan:
[31:29] Yeah so like this I think the reason why they went with the screws is to get the military grade um, For the military-grade IP55 rating, you probably needed to have some more seal than a piece of plastic that you could peel off because the water resistance, the dust resistance.

Michael:
[31:48] And stability probably is another factor, too. Yeah.

Ryan:
[31:51] Yeah. And so, I’m guessing that’s why they went that. But believe me, just taking off a couple screws is… Yeah, no big deal. No big deal. And your battery pops right out.

Michael:
[32:00] So, I would… I was just pointing out those are the only things I’ve seen that are negatives. And these are like, those are kind of like tiny negatives, in my opinion. I think, I think this phone looks fantastic.

Ryan:
[32:09] It uses the 50 megapixel Sony camera lens inside of it or sensor inside of it, which is awesome. You know, it’s got AI stuff that they’re integrating as well. It could do 4K video recording, full HD, 1080p, 720p. Comes with Android 15. You’ve got your Snapdragon 7S Gen 3 processor. it’s just got 256 gigabytes of internal storage but it also has external storage capacity you remember those days way way way back what out of micro sd and expand your storage that’s.

Michael:
[32:44] Not a thing you’re making stuff up ryan.

Ryan:
[32:47] Yeah i know you can go up to two terabytes on your phone with that feature so that’s awesome that’s freaking incredible how many phones can you do that with and it’s just got it’s got everything you know your gyroscopes your barometers all of your different sensors all the stuff you would expect from a phone except for the fact that it can last up to two days on its battery which you don’t expect all the stuff you’d expect from.

Michael:
[33:09] A modern smartphone except for tons of glue.

Ryan:
[33:12] Yeah no glue and tons of battery life that’s what you get instead so also if you’re somebody who’s into sustainability which in the tech world we should all be into they’re increasing their use of recycled materials aluminum copper plastics rare earths all of that in there so you know not only is it an awesome phone but it’s used tons of recycled materials in there so that we’re not constantly throwing all of this stuff in this e-waste into the trash and also just by default.

Michael:
[33:42] It’s an eco-friendly phone because of the fact that the batteries are replaceable and you can you.

Ryan:
[33:47] Know you can.

Michael:
[33:47] Replace different pieces and you don’t have to throw away an entire phone just because there’s a new one or whatever but now you also have the fact that they’re working on with recycled materials as well on top of that or they already did that but they’re increasing it more so it’s fantastic.

Ryan:
[34:02] Getting better and better and long-term software support eight years of software

Ryan:
[34:07] support which i think is a year up from the prior phone which gets me to another complaint so i called out cousin lisa.

Michael:
[34:17] Well, this is a complaint for Ryan in general.

Ryan:
[34:18] I may have made another call out earlier in the show.

Michael:
[34:21] Yeah, this is not a complaint for the Fairphone, just to be clear.

Ryan:
[34:23] So I guess Cousin Lisa needs to leave a comment. Ryan is ornery this episode because I am going to pick another fight because why not? I love all the folks at EOS and I love all the folks at Graphene OS. I think what they make is incredible. It’s a secure, private, focused alternatives to standard Android. I’m so thankful for all of them. However, sometimes really smart people don’t do so well on social media posts. And so there was a question that was asked out there to GrapheneOS on X about why don’t you support Fairphone? And their response was, Fairphone doesn’t currently provide close to Pixel’s seven years and updates. Latest monthly, quarterly, and yearly updates are provided each month with full Android security patches. you’ll need to talk to them about meeting our update and other requirements rather than to us. Uh, not a really nice post. Number one, I don’t think it was like very fair. And number two, I don’t think that’s fair at all.

Ryan:
[35:26] Uh, graphing to kind of state that about the fair phone. Um, because number one, uh, there’s a lot more going into, uh, this device to making a phone than people I think realize. And number two, you’re basically stating the only phones you’ll support are from Google. And so, like, why wouldn’t you be reaching out wanting to work with them if there is some concern there to get your OS on something other than Google’s phone? Which, you know, who knows? This is a company that’s making a phone that’s repairable. This is a company that’s focusing on making a phone that is eco-friendly. There’s so much here.

Michael:
[36:11] They partnered with EOS for a privacy factor as well, so they care about that too.

Ryan:
[36:16] They were able to partner with EOS, which runs fantastic, but Graphene is drawing this line in this. It’s just weird. I think you need to re… My hope is that you reconsider your position, Graphene developers, on your take with the Fairphone. I think this is a opportunity that should be pursued with passion rather than just, you know, thumb your nose up and say, well, you know, they have to come to us and they have to meet these requirements and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. If they need help, you all could work together and maybe help each other on some stuff. Because graphene is awesome. I mean, a lot of people in our community use it and I like it. And this doesn’t change my opinion. I just think this is a really bad take. That’s all. It’s just a bad take.

Michael:
[37:00] It’s just kind of like an unfortunate situation where you would imagine both of these projects would, like, they seem like they would want to work together and not wanting to is kind of… It’s weird. It’s just surprising.

Ryan:
[37:11] It shouldn’t exist. It’s weird. It’s weird.

Michael:
[37:14] It’s weird.

Ryan:
[37:15] It’s weird. Graphene is weird. Stop being weird.

Michael:
[37:18] Don’t be weird.

Ryan:
[37:19] Don’t be weird.

Michael:
[37:21] We’re weird.

Ryan:
[37:22] You’re not allowed to be weird.

Michael:
[37:23] We are weird quite often. But something that’s not weird is what Valve is doing. They made a huge change that is awesome. So they actually flipped the switch on Proton, which means Proton is now always on. You don’t have to go in and check the box that says enable for titles or for other titles. It just is on. This is huge because it means that if you are new to Linux or new to Linux gaming or new to the Steam Deck even, you don’t have to worry about setting up Proton anymore once this is out because you just start playing the game. And if it works with a native Linux build, it will just launch that. But if it doesn’t and it needs to try Proton, it will automatically just try Proton. So there won’t be any issues of people saying like, why can’t I get Proton to work? Or where’s the install process and all that sort of stuff? Because it was kind of hidden away in the settings. And now it’s just click the install and click play. And either it does or it doesn’t.

Jill:
[38:25] And Valve being Valve, this is automatically, of course, opts you into this functionality. But you can easily go turn it off.

Ryan:
[38:34] Why would you not want it?

Jill:
[38:35] I know. Well, if you’re doing some other testing. Yeah.

Ryan:
[38:40] Maybe.

Jill:
[38:41] Interesting.

Michael:
[38:43] But, you know, speaking of Valve, because Valve has done a lot of stuff for the Linux platform, bringing gaming to Linux has been a huge impact. And arguably, the Steam Deck itself has been a huge impact for Linux overall. We can’t really say that that is the exact reason why there’s been so much improvement in terms of like market share. But we can say is that the market share has finally hit 5% in the US. so linux has crossed a symbolic threshold in the u.s now holding 5.03 percent of the desktop market as of this month well technically last month june 2025 windows remains dominant of course but it is shrinking quite a bit mac os is sitting around 24 though the real linux footprint is likely higher than the 5% for many reasons. A lot of times we don’t have tracking. We don’t have any idea exactly how big it is because most distributions don’t do any tracking whatsoever. And those that do, it’s not everybody because you can choose not to support it and that sort of stuff. So we don’t know exactly how many.

Ryan:
[39:55] I don’t believe any of this. Let me tell you why. There’s this journal that posts stuff out there that said Linux was dead because Google was releasing a new version of their operating system.

Michael:
[40:08] Oh, you’re talking about Fuchsia?

Ryan:
[40:09] Yeah, Fuchsia. And they made a whole thing in their journal about how Linux is basically dying and won’t exist because of this. And now you’re telling me a year later that we’re growing. How is this possible when a journal says that, Michael?

Michael:
[40:23] Well, not all journals are made equal. Oh, okay.

Ryan:
[40:27] Just checking.

Michael:
[40:28] And also, Fuchsia has basically gone nowhere. It’s an interesting technology because it’s a microkernel. And if you want to talk about that in general, that’s interesting. But in terms of like mainstream, if Google can’t make it mainstream, it’s going to be a strong challenge for anybody else. But anyway, so there’s.

Ryan:
[40:45] There’s definitely trust these days. You can’t even trust the journal.

Michael:
[40:48] You know, it all depends on the kind of journal. But once you factor in stuff like privacy minded users who block trackers, or people who are on systems that don’t do tracking and that sort of stuff, there’s, there’s definitely more people in it. And there’s also the 4.7% of the unknown bucket. We don’t know exactly what that means. So there could be people who are in the Linux platform.

Ryan:
[41:12] So it’s 9.76%.

Michael:
[41:14] They also could be BSD or something.

Ryan:
[41:17] Yeah, they could be BSD. That still counts as Linux, though. They’re Linux. They don’t like to be called Linux.

Michael:
[41:22] They’re Linux.

Ryan:
[41:23] They’re Linux.

Michael:
[41:23] They’re not even.

Ryan:
[41:24] I’m ornery, remember. I’m ornery.

Michael:
[41:26] Oh, you’re ornery Ryan this week. Oh, okay.

Ryan:
[41:29] Gotcha.

Jill:
[41:29] Gotcha.

Michael:
[41:29] Remember, Ryan is okay, people.

Jill:
[41:32] And the other thing with Stack Counter is how they separate the category of Linux. I mean, they put Chrome OS in a separate category, which I think it kind of should be. But you need to add that to the.

Michael:
[41:46] I think it’s I think it’s better that it’s separate because if Linux by itself is 5 percent and then you add in the extra 2.7 for Chrome OS, like you have you have a definite market.

Ryan:
[41:58] 7.6.

Michael:
[41:59] Some of that.

Ryan:
[42:01] Because, you know, there’s so we’re at 12 percent now. Yeah.

Michael:
[42:04] Sure. Why not? So there’s a significant amount of platform adoption with Linux, and there could be many reasons why that’s happening. Could it be the end of 10 for the end of 10.org, I think, by the way, if you want more information about that?

Ryan:
[42:19] I think they extended it.

Michael:
[42:21] They extended their support. There’s rumors of extending it, but I haven’t seen them actually confirmed.

Ryan:
[42:27] I heard, yeah, I hadn’t verified it. I just saw it in like posts that somebody said, if you have a Microsoft account, so you sign in with your micros, then you get extended support.

Michael:
[42:36] But when does 11 requires you to have a Microsoft account? Doesn’t it?

Ryan:
[42:40] Well, I think you can still skip them. Like there’s workarounds for it, but yeah, you have to basically, you know, feed into their system, but I don’t know if that’s true or not. People can verify and send it into us.

Michael:
[42:50] Yeah.

Ryan:
[42:50] But I had seen articles about that. So maybe.

Michael:
[42:53] And if, if, if Ryan is wrong, send us a comment at destination.net/comments that says Ryan is wrong. but still okay, I guess.

Jill:
[43:01] The other reason why the market share, though, is higher is that it can’t track Sneakernet. It can’t track when one person downloads the ISO and you could put it on 12 different USB flash drives and give it out to your students.

Ryan:
[43:15] Plus, this is based on surveys.

Michael:
[43:17] She’s describing what she did.

Jill:
[43:19] Yeah.

Ryan:
[43:20] Jill’s a hacker, for those who didn’t know. But also, it depends on what system. So a lot of people have multiple systems. They have Windows, they have Mac, they have Linux. And so if you get your Steam survey, you’re in Steam while you’re in Windows. then that’s not going to close.

Michael:
[43:36] No, you close the, you close the game, you close the whole thing, you reboot into Linux, then you get it to activate. Then you’ve sent the survey. And cause it, cause it usually does that. It usually will reactivate when you log into the next time.

Jill:
[43:49] Yeah.

Michael:
[43:49] So don’t, don’t say no, don’t close it. Just shut down your computer. And then it will re, and typically it will reactivate.

Ryan:
[43:57] I mean, just pull the plug in the back of the computer when that happens.

Michael:
[44:00] Maybe do a, it’s windows, Ryan, maybe do like a real shutdown. Cause otherwise, who knows?

Ryan:
[44:04] Is there such a thing where you wait for a blue screen or how do you shut down windows? You just wait for a blue screen.

Michael:
[44:09] You just hold the hard reset button.

Jill:
[44:12] Well, the other thing, and that’s a good point you’re bringing up about the STEAM survey. The STEAM survey, people don’t realize it’s opt-in. It’s voluntary. You don’t have to send that information and some people probably don’t. So it’s still not a true number. We know it’s higher.

Michael:
[44:30] Yeah it’s it’s a good it’s a good percentage information but it’s not like as far as the actual numbers it’s definitely off but it’s still interesting because there’s an effect that from the steam deck because there’s a lot of people who are you know they’re switching over to linux because they had a good experience with a steam deck it kind of like normalized linux gaming so once the gamers saw the magic of proton on the steam deck they were like very interested in trying out Linux on a side laptop or something. I saw a video recently. I did a reaction video to someone who just kind of had a laptop that was a perfectly good Dell XPS and just had it in the closet because there was an issue with Windows not being able to boot on it. And then they brought it out and said, oh, I’ll just put Linux on it. And it worked great. So, you know, that’s an awesome story.

Ryan:
[45:21] Most people’s experience. Yeah.

Michael:
[45:23] And also that person was, you know, had fine with gaming because of the Steam Deck experience as well. So there’s a lot of factors of this, the Linux market share going up, Valve and Steam Deck and the Steam client in general, plus also Windows Recall. Thanks, Microsoft, for making such a stupid idea.

Ryan:
[45:44] By the way, if you’re wondering who that person was that Michael was talking about with Adele, Michael often talks about himself in third person. It was Michael and it was last week.

Michael:
[45:52] It was not me. It was a different person. and that video will be coming out on my channel pretty soon as a reaction video. So yeah, and it’s also not PewDiePie this time. Oh, okay. The reaction video is not PewDiePie.

Ryan:
[46:05] All right, oh man, who could it be?

Michael:
[46:08] I think this is actually a pretty interesting note in terms of like the climb that Linux has had for a very long time. We go from like 1% to 2%. That process took about eight years. you, And that’s a significant amount of time. But then there was a jump from two to three that took a couple of years. Three to four took another couple of years. But four to five was literally just this past year. So last year in June, it was 4%. Now to this year, it’s 5%. That is some very good acceleration of momentum.

Ryan:
[46:47] Imagine where we’d be if Google Fuchsia didn’t exist and holding us back so much. You know?

Michael:
[46:56] We might be at 5.0000001%. Yeah.

Ryan:
[47:02] Man. You know, thanks a lot, Google.

Michael:
[47:06] How dare you, Google.

Ryan:
[47:08] All right. Well, our software spotlight this week is a really cool tool called IP Lookup. And we talked about Flatpaks last week. You can get it as a Flatpak as well, if you like. If you want to feel like an elite hacker.

Michael:
[47:23] I do.

Ryan:
[47:24] Too bad. this tool is not for you but oh man it is really cool to look up ip addresses and get all their info like i walk right into that yeah you walk right into it it was perfect um and so this is just it’s a really cool gui to get information on ips if for instance uh you get one of those funny emails you know and you want to kind of look up where its destination is or you know you You want to get information like the city, the state, the actual region, country, time zone, ISP, the organization. All of that stuff is listed by typing in a simple IP address into this very, very cool tool that you can utilize. So very fun, really neat tool, gives you lots of good information and very simple to use. You can, of course, do all this through the command line, too, but it’s nice to have a GUI. it’s a nice GUI I.

Michael:
[48:21] Like it a lot and also it’s a good way to get started with a GUI and try it out you know yeah.

Ryan:
[48:25] Absolutely. Well, a big thank you to each and every one of you for supporting us by watching or listening to Destination Linux. However you do it, we love your faces. You can come join us on our Discord by going to tuxdigital.com/discord. And the best news is we all need to come closer together as a community. And we are listened to in over 190 countries. And so if you want to have a bunch of friends from all around the world, all you have to do is go into the Discord and say, I like Linux. Or I like Destination Lynx Podcast. And you instantly have something in common with every single person in there. And they’re like, me too. And then you’ve got friends from all around the world. That’s how it works. It’s amazing. It’s like magic.

Michael:
[49:08] And it’s been tested and proven accurate. We said this one time, someone tested it, proved it was true, instant friendship. And also another note recently, we have a forum as well. And the forum is like, so a forum and a Discord server, and they’re for different types of things. So a chat room is for like live communication. A forum is more like for help in certain ways of like a long-term thing. And it might take a little bit of time to do some troubleshooting and that sort of stuff. But there’s a lot of different benefits between having both of them. So we have both of them. You can go to touchstools.com/forum, touchstools.com/discord. And recently there was a post on the forum where someone was asking for help about a specific purpose, a specific issue they were having with Kubuntu and their hardware. And I went into the Discord server, had a conversation with a bunch of people, collected a bunch of data, and made a really in-depth reply to the person on the forum. And that means if you have any kind of hardware issues, you can go and check to see all this information that’s been collected for you. Whereas on a chat room, once the chat is complete… And the conversation is like a day old. It has vanished into the ether of the void. And yeah, because you can search for stuff. But once you’re going back.

Ryan:
[50:18] Look, by the way, if you want to know the person with the issue with the Ubuntu stuff was Michael. And then he replied to his own post with information he gathered to discord.

Michael:
[50:27] I like to remind people, Ryan likes to say a lot of stuff that is not true about me.

Ryan:
[50:31] He refers to him.

Michael:
[50:31] Typically about me. So when he says, let’s clarify. So sometimes I will say that Ryan likes to make up stuff. but uh that’s not fair to ryan in the sense of like when he’s taught we’re talking about a topic he’s not doing that he’s he’s very straightforward on when a topic is being discussed when it’s me that he’s talking about it is almost always made up that’s ridiculous almost almost always you.

Ryan:
[50:55] Should go to tuxdigital.com membership that’s true you could become a patron of this show and if you are become a patron of the show you can still there’s still time become a patron go back and watch last week’s episode as a patron and see Michael LARP as a raptor.

Michael:
[51:12] It did happen. It 100% happened. If you would like to see me LARP as a raptor for some reason, you can go to tuxdigital.com/membership and become a patron.

Ryan:
[51:23] Well, let me tell you the reason.

Michael:
[51:25] You can access also many more. But what possibly could be the reason?

Ryan:
[51:28] You go to the movies these days. Jurassic Park’s coming out this weekend. A movie ticket’s like 20 bucks plus popcorn. That’s another 20 bucks. all this stuff you can save all that money, And see a raptor by just becoming a patron for five bucks. You get a month of access and you get to see a raptor right there. And it costs you $5.

Michael:
[51:48] That’s a fair point. Yes. With that said, 100%, there is no excuse now to not be a patron. Because we all know you want to see what it looks like for me to LARP as a raptor.

Ryan:
[52:00] Yeah. Don’t waste your money watching the new Jurassic Park when you can see it here on our show.

Jill:
[52:05] And Michael’s about the same height as a raptor.

Michael:
[52:08] That’s true.

Ryan:
[52:09] Yeah, it probably is.

Michael:
[52:10] Yeah. up things about me we have we made a special item for him in the store of ryan’s okay i guess that’s.

Ryan:
[52:46] Great i gotta tell you a story about this merch stuff first of all our merch is awesome uh and i’ll get into that in a second but be me okay i have an i have another job outside of this incredibly important job here of podcasting and i think that’s.

Michael:
[53:02] Really that’s a stretch to call this a job.

Ryan:
[53:03] Yeah that’s true when i go to my job you know i work on very serious projects michael very serious things that change the world, change the world. Okay. Okay, good. Now, I get on a call, and my boss is there. And a lot of times, we turn on our cameras, right, to communicate, because we’re in different states. And so the camera turns on. And the first thing I notice is they’re holding up a DOS Geek coffee mug. That’s awesome, right? I was like, oh my gosh, a DOS Geek coffee mug. That’s amazing. And I started laughing. I was like, that’s so great. You know, I wasn’t expecting it. They’ve become a fan of Linux and love the show and stuff.

Michael:
[53:44] That’s awesome.

Ryan:
[53:45] But then they didn’t even say anything. I noticed a shirt on.

Michael:
[53:49] Oh, did he get it? Ryan’s okay, I guess.

Ryan:
[53:51] Ryan is okay, I guess.

Jill:
[53:54] And he was the first person probably to order it.

Ryan:
[53:57] My boss is wearing a shirt that says, Ryan is okay, I guess. Not great. Ryan’s amazing. And then I’m like, this is going to be in my performance review, right? And he laughed and was like, absolutely. Like, it’s just going to say, Ryan’s okay. I guess, you know, thanks a lot, Michael, for making that shirt.

Michael:
[54:18] It’s so I like your boss more, more now for sure.

Ryan:
[54:21] Yeah.

Michael:
[54:21] Like I haven’t even met your boss and I think your boss is awesome.

Ryan:
[54:24] Yeah.

Michael:
[54:25] He’s trolling you with the merch I made to troll you. Fantastic.

Ryan:
[54:32] It’s unbelievable. You’ve got a minion out there, Michael, helping you.

Jill:
[54:35] That’s awesome. Yeah. And speaking at DOS geek, make sure to check out all the amazing shows here on Texas. that’s right. We have an entire network of shows to fill your whole week with geeky goodness, including the DOS Geek channel.

Michael:
[54:47] That one’s nice.

Jill:
[54:48] Head to tuxdigital.com to keep those Linux penguins marching.

Ryan:
[54:52] Oh, by the way, Michael, my boss is a coffee mug snob, okay?

Michael:
[54:58] Nice.

Ryan:
[54:59] And they mentioned this, that they have a very specific brand company that they go to to get their coffee mugs because there’s a couple of things that they have to have. It has a certain amount of ounces, has to have a certain size handle, has to, you know, all these different things for a good coffee cup. And I was like, yeah, I mean, you got to have a good coffee cup. And they said our coffee cups meet all of the standards of the coffee cups that they look for from this company, which is really awesome. So if you want to get a good coffee cup, got it on a good authority that it’s a really good coffee cup and it’s big. So we know a lot of us drink a lot of coffee.

Michael:
[55:34] It’s not like the excessively like super big. It’s like the big cup you want to have, right? And also, I have my own criteria of a good coffee mug. And my criteria, yeah, I have one. Like, of course, the handle is important. I agree. But there’s also one that I feel like is kind of overlooked by some companies. And I consider the mug… terrible if it does this where you put the like you know put water in the mug put it in the microwave uh and then the handle gets hot and the mug itself doesn’t that doesn’t make any sense like just the physics of it because the liquid is supposed to be hot it means the mug is not made properly and our mugs on my testing have not done that so another criteria met we.

Ryan:
[56:22] Got good mugs.

Jill:
[56:23] Sweet.

Ryan:
[56:23] Here on this show, Jill, we have the best mugs.

Jill:
[56:25] Yeah, we do.

Michael:
[56:27] Although, you should get just like… This is like for the people who want instant coffee and you’re lazy. If you want to do like the connoisseur of coffee, you need to have like a French press or even like a drip coffee.

Ryan:
[56:40] Oh, you’re such a snob.

Michael:
[56:41] Then it doesn’t matter.

Jill:
[56:43] Aw. Well, I don’t drink coffee, but I’m a tea person.

Michael:
[56:45] I didn’t talk about the overpour.

Ryan:
[56:47] Oh, that’s right, Jill, because we got to talk to All the people from UK and other things are more interested in how it handles tea. By the way, for coffee, I hear it’s even better for tea. I don’t know where I heard it, but I’ve heard that.

Michael:
[57:00] Actually, it is better for tea. So now you know where you heard it.

Jill:
[57:03] No, thank you.

Ryan:
[57:04] I heard it from a good source.

Michael:
[57:07] Yep, not biased in any way whatsoever.

Ryan:
[57:08] That has weak thumbs. So if they can hold their coffee mug, you can too.

Michael:
[57:13] That part’s not true. My thumbs are very strong, people. if you would like to know where oh that’s an extra bonus, patron perk if you would like to know where the weak thumbs thing comes from join us as a patron and I’ll post a special, you know clip from where it comes from because I remember I don’t remember what episode it is but I remember the context so I could probably find it but anyway, everybody have a great week and remember that the journey itself is just as important as the destination.

Jill:
[57:45] And make sure to put Babelfish in your ear so you can understand this episode.

Ryan:
[57:51] Oh, nice callback, Jill.

Michael:
[57:54] I hope they get interested in general because otherwise we need to work on our presentations.

Ryan:
[57:59] Yeah. Well, I don’t know that everybody’s seen or read or heard that, you know, because it is a very deep geek culture thing.

Jill:
[58:07] It is.

Michael:
[58:08] It is a very deep culture thing. It’s all actually what’s funny is that I think there are more people who have heard of the 42 joke than actually have like read the book or seen the movie.

Jill:
[58:17] Yeah.

Ryan:
[58:17] Yeah.

Michael:
[58:19] But that was me for a long time.

Ryan:
[58:20] It’s worthy of a read. I listened to it as an audio book way later in life and I loved it. I thought it was fantastic. It was so good. So we won’t say what it is because if you don’t know what it is, then you’re just not in the club. It’s a Chuck.

Michael:
[58:34] Also, if you would like to know what it is, just go to the YouTube comments. There’s pretty much a guarantee that someone has commented on there.

Ryan:
[58:40] I wonder who will get it first probably not Cousin Lisa because she’s probably too busy writing a nasty comment about me this week.

Michael:
[58:50] I wonder if Cousin Lisa does it anyway and then after that.

Ryan:
[58:54] Then does a nasty comment right after that you’re on notice next week everybody see ya.